fourth out

[SnocatzDad]

No, that is not totally correct. Tag a forced runner and it is a force play, all games, all rule sets. Also, an appeal at a base to which the subject runner was forced, is a force play, all games, all rule sets.

The tag of the runner was not a force out. So the fourth out appeal needed to be made. If the defensive player would have stepped on second base, that would have been a force out and the run would not have been allowed.

You guys want to work this one out and get back to me??

[wadeintothem]

There is nothing to work out - one is correct (the umpire) and one is not (goodeye)

[goodeye]

There is nothing to work out - one is correct (the umpire) and one is not (goodeye)

So then a run can score on a 3rd out that is a force out??

[MTR]

The tag of the runner was not a force out. So the fourth out appeal needed to be made. If the defensive player would have stepped on second base, that would have been a force out and the run would not have been allowed.

The following are facts:

You cannot have a force out anytime the batter or batter-runner is retired first.
You cannot have a force out without a runner on 1B
Tagging a runner is irrelevant to whether a play is a force out or not.

[McGee]

This was not a force. It was a timing play and as a result you need to get the 4th out appeal. It is a timing play fwheater a tag of the runner or an appeal at second. LA papers stated that if the play was appealed at second, the run would not score because the force out rule applies. This is incorrect.

The dodger manager had to go out and make an appeal to the umpire before they put the run on the board. The run should count period and does not require an appeal. It seems everyone, escept Joe Torre, was asleep at the wheel.

[Comp]

ASA Rule 1, Force Out: An out which may be made only when a runner loses the right to the base that the runner is occupying because the batter becomes a batter-runner, and before the batter-runner or a trialing runner has been put out.

ASA Rule 5 Scoring of Runs, Ssection 5B. No run shall be scored if the third out of the inning is the result of: 1. A batter-runner being cale dout prior to reaching first base or any other runner forced out due to the batter becoming a batter-runner. On an appeal play, the force out is determined when the appeal is made, not when the infraction occured. 2. A runner being put out by a tag or live ball appeal play prior to the lead runner touching home plate. 3. A preceding runner is declared out on an appeal play.

In the Diamondbacks game, there was never a "force" of any runner. They could have just stepped on 2nd base for the live ball appeal, but, if the runner from 3rd had already crossed home plate prior to the base being stepped on the run still would have scored. The only way they could have cancled the run was to have appealed for the 4th out at 3rd base prior to the defensive players leaving the field of play. Once they left, the run stands.

[artomatic]

ASA Rule 1, Force Out: An out which may be made only when a runner loses the right to the base that the runner is occupying because the batter becomes a batter-runner, and before the batter-runner or a trialing runner has been put out.

ASA Rule 5 Scoring of Runs, Ssection 5B. No run shall be scored if the third out of the inning is the result of: 1. A batter-runner being cale dout prior to reaching first base or any other runner forced out due to the batter becoming a batter-runner. On an appeal play, the force out is determined when the appeal is made, not when the infraction occured. 2. A runner being put out by a tag or live ball appeal play prior to the lead runner touching home plate. 3. A preceding runner is declared out on an appeal play.

In the Diamondbacks game, there was never a "force" of any runner. They could have just stepped on 2nd base for the live ball appeal, but, if the runner from 3rd had already crossed home plate prior to the base being stepped on the run still would have scored. The only way they could have cancled the run was to have appealed for the 4th out at 3rd base prior to the defensive players leaving the field of play. Once they left, the run stands.

thanks, i think i get it now...

[Abracadabra]

Great post... learned something new today...

[Bretman]

Another piece of Fourth Out trivia...

In ASA softball, the fourth out appeal can only be made against a runner who has scored.

I'm not aware of any other bseball or softball rule set that has this restriction. All the rest allow the appeal to be made against any other runner.

[GIMNEPIWO]

Another piece of Fourth Out trivia...

In ASA softball, the fourth out appeal can only be made against a runner who has scored.

I'm not aware of any other bseball or softball rule set that has this restriction. All the rest allow the appeal to be made against any other runner.

Maybe I'm having a brain fart now ... but I can't think of a reason why the 4th out would matter if a runner didn't score ...?