Why will Umpires refuse to ask for help from other Umpire???

[Under the Radar]

We were in a friendly & our lead off hitter hits a stand up triple to left field. The field Ump runs as soon as the ball was hit to left field to watch the play and see the play at 3rd base. One of the parents from the opposing team is yelling she never touched 1st. So they throw the ball to 1st & the field Ump calls her out. Our coach calls time and ask the field Umpire if he can please check with the Plate Ump. He says no way & if you ask again your out of here. Our coach then says please check it is a friendly what is it going to hurt? He then tossed our coach.

Now my question is why would he not check? I have seen other Umps refuse to check as well, are they afraid they might be wrong?

[Bretman]

Maybe an umpire won't check because:

- He clearly saw the play in question and is certain of what he saw and confident in his judgment.

- He is inexperienced and hasn't been trained as to the proper way to handle this.

- He is so egotistically wrapped up in his calls that he views any questioning of them as an affront to his authority and manhood.

Take your pick. Could be one of these, a combination of all three, or something in between.

On this play, if the base umpire pivoted into the infield on the hit, then it is his responsibility to watch the batter-runner touch first base. The plate umpire is supposed to watch the catch/no catch in the outfield and likely would have no idea if first base was touched or not.

If the base umpire went out toward left field to watch the catch/no catch, then the plate umpire has responsibility for the runners touching bases. If that was the case, then your coach was appealing to the wrong umpire.

Whichever umpire has the runner's touch of the bases, he should NEVER guess at an out. Unless he clearly saw the base being missed he should not rule an out on the appeal.

[Under the Radar]

One of the problems is more time then not the field Umpire seems to be a spectator and they rarely call early leads or even illegle pitches unless a coach brings it to there attention. In this case base runners from both sides were getting early leads & were never called infact they were letting the pitcher pitch from off the rubber but the're going to make this call??? The reason our coach had to apeal to the field umpire is he was the one to call the out.

Thank you for your input.

[GIMNEPIWO]

Was your Coach, or you as confident that she touched first base as the Umpire was that she missed first base ... With no runners on, I can't picture the scenario where the BU would have felt compelled to run across the field & go out on a fly to left ... Are you sure he didn't button hook and watch the BR touch/miss first? ... or were you watching the play in left? ... I know that when I'm spectating I usually watch the ball, not the bases ...

[Comp]

If the umpire was sure of what he saw, he had no reason to go to his partner for help. Also, as stated, the runners are the base umps responsibility on a fly ball, the catch no catch is the plate umps and he would not have been watching the runner around first anyway.

If an ump goes to his partner every time a coach asks, pretty soon they are going to be asked on every play. There are times you go for help, there are times you dont. In this case, it was the base umps call, the plate umps responsibilties were to look somewhere else so there was no reason to get any help. The ejection may have been a little over the top, but he did warn the coach.

[artomatic]

JMHO here, which together with $6.50 gets you a vente latte at Starbucks:

You mention umpires, illegal pitches, early leads...sometimes getting caught up in all that stuff takes your focus off your game plan, and your players follow their coach's lead.
Pretty soon you are caught up just watching the umps and forget to coach your team.
Plus the more you ride an ump, the more they will tune you out. pick your spots, maybe keep some things tucked away in your memory for later when it means something.
How about this: go over to the ump between innings and discuss what you saw, and what they saw. You'd be surprised how far that respect will go, especially down the road when you have this crew again, it's not like they don't talk to each other and recognize coaches from past games.

Regarding illegal pitches and early leads:
Again, let the umps focus on that, and focus your energy on your game plan.

I love it when the other team starts riding the ump or questioning balls and strikes, especially at the start.
Those types of shenanigans immediately puts that team at a disadvantage, not only with the umpires, but with their focus.

[Under the Radar]

Was your Coach, or you as confident that she touched first base as the Umpire was that she missed first base ... With no runners on, I can't picture the scenario where the BU would have felt compelled to run across the field & go out on a fly to left ... Are you sure he didn't button hook and watch the BR touch/miss first? ... or were you watching the play in left? ... I know that when I'm spectating I usually watch the ball, not the bases ...

Coach was watching the hit ball as everyone was, the compelling protest was that the field Ump ran out to left field and was then in position to see if the runner was safe at 3rd. Then a parent started with she never touched 1st and then they threw to first & he called her out. Back to the main question is why could'nt he just say listen coach it is not going to get over ruled but I will ask..... Instead he chose to grand stand & toss out o coach for questioning his authority....

[Comp]

Two examples I have recently been involved in where I refused to go for help because I know what I saw.

Tag play at home plate, runner clearly beats the throw to the plate coming in standing up. Im standing not 5' from the play and watch the runner plant her entire foot right in the middle of home plate. Coach comes out, "I want you to go to your partner for help on that blue, she missed home plate and I think your partner had a better angle on it." My response, "No coach, I was 5' from the play, I watched her entire foot step on home plate and my partner was over 70' away. Play ball"

2nd play, not that the coach could have asked for help anyway. Lefty slapper up to bat, drops a bunt and turns on the afterburners and is safe at first. This girl was fast, and I mean FAST. Very next pitch she is off on the pitch stealing 2nd. She slides head first into 2nd about 2" ahead of the tag, it was a really close play. Coach comes flying out of the dugout screaming that he is protesting because she left early, his exact words, "at least 2 steps early." First off, the plate ump is not watching the runner at first for leaving early, so I would not go to him in anyway. Second, as I already said, this girl was extremely fast and just barely beat the throw into 2nd sliding. If she had been 2 steps early she would have gone in standing up.

If you think you may have missed something, sure, go ask your partner. If you are sure, dont go for help.

[umpinva]

We were in a friendly & our lead off hitter hits a stand up triple to left field. The field Ump runs as soon as the ball was hit to left field to watch the play and see the play at 3rd base. One of the parents from the opposing team is yelling she never touched 1st. So they throw the ball to 1st & the field Ump calls her out. Our coach calls time and ask the field Umpire if he can please check with the Plate Ump. He says no way & if you ask again your out of here. Our coach then says please check it is a friendly what is it going to hurt? He then tossed our coach.

Now my question is why would he not check? I have seen other Umps refuse to check as well, are they afraid they might be wrong?

My questions are:

Unless they are doing three man mechanics, why is the BU going out on a ball hit to left field?

If they were doing three man mechanics, why would U3 who went out on the hit to left field come back in to watch the bases being touched?

Two man mechanics when the BU goes out the PU picks up the BR responsibilities and the BU should not be going out on a ball hit to left field.

[softballaddict]

With two umpire mechanics and nobody on (leadoff hitter hits standup triple), the BU has the batter-runner all the way to third. It is his responsibility to watch batter-runner touch each base, and follow the runner all the way to third. On a ball hit to left field, BU should not be going out for the catch/no catch, that is PU responsibility. Again, as Bretman said, NEVER guess an out so I would assume the BU saw the BR touch first. No need for second opinions.