Obstruction

[narcosis]

For some reason I can't search, so if this has been asked and answered I'm sorry. Base runner on first (the only base runner). Batter hits a single to the outfield. Base runner on first rounds second to go to third. SS obstructs the base runner and the field ump sticks arm out for obstruction. When the field ump's arm goes out I tell the third base coach to wave base runner home (yes I am a coach). The third base coach stops the runner at 3rd. I was thinking that if she doesn't slow down, no matter what happens at home (out or safe) the run scores because of the obstruction.

In between innings, the plate ump said the 3rd base coach was right to stop her and gave me this explanation. The only base the runner could get without the chance of being called out was the next base the runner was attempting to gain. He stated if the base runner had continued home and was thrown out then they play would have counted as an out at home.

This was an ASA game.

Was the plate ump correct in his ruling? I remember a WCWS game where this happened but the player was ruled as scoring (runner obstructed by SS and coach sending her home, was thrown out at home but ruled safe due to obstruction). The reason gave by the commentators and rules person was the base runner was safe due to the runner not slowing down when they were sent home. If the player had slowed down they would have been sent back to third.

[PDad]

Wow, that was quite an edit on the OP...

For some reason I can't search so if this has been asked and answered I'm sorry. Base runner on first (the only base runner). Batter hits a single. Base runner on first rounds second to go to third. SS obstructs the base runner and the field ump sticks arm out for obstruction. When the field ump's arm goes out I continue to wave base runner home thinking that if she doesn't slow down, no matter what happens at home (out or safe) the run scores because of the obstruction. The base runner does not slow down and continues home. The third base player mishandles the ball thrown in from the outfield and the base runner is safe at home from the throw of the third base player. If ball would have been handled cleanly the base runner would have been out on the throw; by a long shot.

The plate ump sent the base runner back to third. This is the explanation he gave. It was in his judgement the only base she could have reached was 3rd when the obstruction occurred. He stated if the base runner was thrown out at home then it would have counted as an out.

This was an ASA game.

Was the plate ump correct in his ruling? I remember a WCWS game where this happened but the player was ruled as scoring. The reason gave was due to the runner not slowing down when they were sent home. If the player had slowed down they would have been sent back to third.

[Comp]

If that is the explanation the umpire gave you that is not entirely correct either.

Once obstructed, a runner may not be called out between the 2 bases where they were obstructed. Per your original post, if the runner was obstructed between 2nd and 3rd those are the bases between which she cannot be called out. (Caveat to this is if the runner commits an act of interference, the interference takes precedence and they would be out) Obstruction is not an automatic base award, if the runner is put out between the 2 bases where obstructed, the ball is dead and the umpire awards the base, or bases they judge the runner would have safely reached absent the obstruction. It could be 3rd base, it could be 2nd, if it was a real fast runner and the runner was obstructed enough the umpire may even judge the runner would have reached home.

When you see an umpire signal obstruction, the only bases you can be assured the runner is protected between is the 2 bases where the obstruction occured. Sending runners based on seeing an umpires obstruction signal is not a wise choice as you have no idea what the umpire has judged.

[MTR]

I don't know to which scenario to respond, but Comp pretty much covers it. The coach should coach the game in front of them, not to an assumption of how an umpire may rule.

[narcosis]

Wow, that was quite an edit on the OP...

For some reason I can't search so if this has been asked and answered I'm sorry. Base runner on first (the only base runner). Batter hits a single. Base runner on first rounds second to go to third. SS obstructs the base runner and the field ump sticks arm out for obstruction. When the field ump's arm goes out I continue to wave base runner home thinking that if she doesn't slow down, no matter what happens at home (out or safe) the run scores because of the obstruction. The base runner does not slow down and continues home. The third base player mishandles the ball thrown in from the outfield and the base runner is safe at home from the throw of the third base player. If ball would have been handled cleanly the base runner would have been out on the throw; by a long shot.

The plate ump sent the base runner back to third. This is the explanation he gave. It was in his judgement the only base she could have reached was 3rd when the obstruction occurred. He stated if the base runner was thrown out at home then it would have counted as an out.

This was an ASA game.

Was the plate ump correct in his ruling? I remember a WCWS game where this happened but the player was ruled as scoring. The reason gave was due to the runner not slowing down when they were sent home. If the player had slowed down they would have been sent back to third.

I was posting for a friend and posted it before I read it back to him. I misunderstood what he said. I didn't see the need to go into the "was not there" explanation. What is now posted is what happened according to the friend.

According to COMP, the plate ump made the correct ruling.

The coach was coaching the game in front of him. It sounds like he misunderstood the "awarding" of bases when there is an obstruction and not on the assumption of how the ump was going to rule. The coach learned something and will help him and his team in the future. Isn't that what all coaches (should) tell their players: no one knows everything....never stop learning the game?

[ajaywill]

Here is what you said:

When the field ump's arm goes out I tell the third base coach to wave base runner home

This is not coaching to the game in front of you, this is coaching to the umpires outstretched arm.

The basic question you need to ask yourself: If the umpire had not signaled obstruction, would you have waved the runner home?

Obstruction is not a free pass to keep running. The effect of obstruction is that the umpire will place obstructed runners on the base they would have achieved absent the obstruction. In my experience, about 98% of the time, that is the same base that the runner ends up at anyway.

The usual follow up question is "how do I know what base my runner is protected to?" You don't. That is why you coach the game in front of you and let the umpire award bases if he judges it is the proper award. And it is a judgement call.

[Little Mo Softball]

Here is a scenario that helped me understand it a little better.

Lets say there is a runner on first. Batter hits a grounder to mid left field. Runner on first rounds 2nd as the ball reaches the left fielder and runner is obstructed by the SS just past 2nd but chooses to continue to 3rd. The left fielder throws to 3rd and runner is out by 30 feet.

Is the runner out or given the base?
The way it was explained to me, it depends on the degree or amount of the obstruction.
So for the above, if the runner just brushes the SS and continues and is out by 30 ft, she is out.
If she runs into her falls down struggle to get up but continues and is out by 30 ft, she is more likely to be given the base.
So I take it as a perception of the umpire as where the runner would have been had they not been obstructed.

[Comp]

Here is a scenario that helped me understand it a little better.

Lets say there is a runner on first. Batter hits a grounder to mid left field. Runner on first rounds 2nd as the ball reaches the left fielder and runner is obstructed by the SS just past 2nd but chooses to continue to 3rd. The left fielder throws to 3rd and runner is out by 30 feet.

Is the runner out or given the base?
The way it was explained to me, it depends on the degree or amount of the obstruction.
So for the above, if the runner just brushes the SS and continues and is out by 30 ft, she is out.
If she runs into her falls down struggle to get up but continues and is out by 30 ft, she is more likely to be given the base.
So I take it as a perception of the umpire as where the runner would have been had they not been obstructed.

Once obstructed, a runner may not be put out between the 2 bases where obstructed (unless they commit an act of interference). In the scenario you have presented, once tagged out, the ball is dead and the runner is placed at the base the umpire judges the runner would have acheived absent the obstruction. If the runner just brushed the SS and was thrown out by 30', then they most likely would not have been safe at 3rd and would be placed back at 2nd.

[PDad]

Here is a scenario that helped me understand it a little better.

Lets say there is a runner on first. Batter hits a grounder to mid left field. Runner on first rounds 2nd as the ball reaches the left fielder and runner is obstructed by the SS just past 2nd but chooses to continue to 3rd. The left fielder throws to 3rd and runner is out by 30 feet.

Is the runner out or given the base?
The way it was explained to me, it depends on the degree or amount of the obstruction.
So for the above, if the runner just brushes the SS and continues and is out by 30 ft, she is out.
If she runs into her falls down struggle to get up but continues and is out by 30 ft, she is more likely to be given the base.
So I take it as a perception of the umpire as where the runner would have been had they not been obstructed.

That would be true for baseball, as we just saw in the World Series. Softball rules are different as others have posted.

[Makina]

Little Ms Softball:

The obstructed runner should be awarded the base they would have obtained if not obstructed and cannot be put out between bases that the obstruction occurred, unless interference is subsequently ruled. The runner should either be placed back on 2nd or awarded 3rd base. If she was put out on a back pick going back to third, then she liable to be put out.