Runner at 1st, does not advance

[GIMNEPIWO]

And here I thought the BR was forced to run to first base on a fair batted ball.....just sayin'.

As the play is described, I have R1 safe. When F4 short hopped the batted ball and made the force out at first base on the BR, R1 had the option to continue advancing or return to first base.

There could have been the possibility of a look back rule violation depending on the actions of F1 and R1 while the ball was in the circle.

Whether a force play is "on" or "off" is very important here, as noted by you and others. For that reason, I bring up the fact that there CANNOT be a force out at 1st base on the BR. Only runners can be forced. The BR is never forced at 1st bas
e. While it may be semantics, I bring it up since it was the topic of conversation.

It;s considered a live ball appeal play ... You get the ball there before the BR reaches the base and she is out ... Just like a runner coming back to a bag on a caught fly there is no force, it's a live ball appeal ... Runners are not forched TO a base, they are forced FROM a base ...

[AlwaysImprove]

And here I thought the BR was forced to run to first base on a fair batted ball.....just sayin'.

As the play is described, I have R1 safe. When F4 short hopped the batted ball and made the force out at first base on the BR, R1 had the option to continue advancing or return to first base.

There could have been the possibility of a look back rule violation depending on the actions of F1 and R1 while the ball was in the circle.

Whether a force play is "on" or "off" is very important here, as noted by you and others. For that reason, I bring up the fact that there CANNOT be a force out at 1st base on the BR. Only runners can be forced. The BR is never forced at 1st bas
e. While it may be semantics, I bring it up since it was the topic of conversation.

It;s considered a live ball appeal play ... You get the ball there before the BR reaches the base and she is out ... Just like a runner coming back to a bag on a caught fly there is no force, it's a live ball appeal ... Runners are not forched TO a base, they are forced FROM a base ...

Do you consider BR forced from home plate to first?

[MTR]

Please clarify your "No." Was it in response to playball13's question about getting the double play or was it just in correcting him saying preceding instead of succeeding or trailing?

It was a correction of the runner designation

Do you consider BR forced from home plate to first?

I certainly hope not since it isn't possible.

[BearFlagFan]

Do you consider BR forced from home plate to first?

I certainly hope not since it isn't possible.

"Force Out" is a defined term in rule manuals and Force is a specific term-of-art synonymous with Force Out in SB/BB where a runner is forced to advance because of the BR. A force is removed the instant the BR either attains 1B safely (becoming a runner) or is out. Always is using the word 'forced' as a synonym to 'required' which is not correct in this context. A BR's requirement to advance to 1B is by rule. The requirement to advance to 1B can't be removed from the BR.

Sadly, the umpire reversed the original correct call with wrong call. As said earlier, if F3 had tagged R1 first, even if R1 was standing on 1B, R1 is out and F3 can simply touch 1B for the 5-3-U double-play. But if F3 touches 1B first, then tags R1 standing on 1B, R1 is safe. That was a scenario this year on either the ASA or NFHS test this year.

The common play you see this in BB/SB is a quick throw to 1B retires the BR and then a quick throw to 2B where F4 must tag R1 to get an out.

[Battle]

A force is removed the instant the BR either attains 1B safely (becoming a runner) or is out.

So with R1 being force from 1st by the BR, if BR beats R1 to the base then the force at 2nd is off?

[BearFlagFan]

A force is removed the instant the BR either attains 1B safely (becoming a runner) or is out.

So with R1 being force from 1st by the BR, if BR beats R1 to the base then the force at 2nd is off?

No, I was incomplete on the safe part as I should have added "...attains 1B safely and all other forced base runners attain the next base safely." If BR is safe at 1B, even if R1 is still standing on 1B, R1 is no longer entitled to occupy 1B and must attain 2B before the force is removed from that runner.

The lesson all players should learn is if there are two players standing on a base, step on the base, tag both players - tagging the lead runner first - and let the umpires figure out who is out.

[Comp]

The lesson all players should learn is if there are two players standing on a base, step on the base, tag both players - tagging the lead runner first - and let the umpires figure out who is out.
BearFlagFan

If both runners are standing on the base, stepping on it means nothing as the trailing runner has already safely reached the base. So yes, tag both runners and let the umpire figure it out. However, had this been a situation where the trailing runner had not yet reached the base and the lead runner did not advance, this would not be correct order to make the play in the play presented. When you have a force situation with the lead runner still standing on the base, if you step on the base first the force will be removed. When the lead runner fails to advance on a force situation and is still standing on the base, the runner must be tagged first, then the base touched for the force out.

[MTR]

Do you consider BR forced from home plate to first?

I certainly hope not since it isn't possible.

"Force Out" is a defined term in rule manuals and Force is a specific term-of-art synonymous with Force Out in SB/BB where a runner is forced to advance because of the BR. A force is removed the instant the BR either attains 1B safely (becoming a runner) or is out. Always is using the word 'forced' as a synonym to 'required' which is not correct in this context. A BR's requirement to advance to 1B is by rule. The requirement to advance to 1B can't be removed from the BR.

A runner or batter runner is never forced to a base, runners are forced from the base they no longer have the right to occupy. And there is never a requirement either advance. It would certainly increase their chances to remain safe, but never required.