Legal Substitutions

[SoCal Breakers]

In a State game, the opponent put in a courtesy runner that was not listed on the official line-up card. This is after the umpire went to great lengths to verify with both Managers that the lineups submitted were correct, including subs. Once the runner was put in, our scorekeeper noticed that the player was not listed. The plate umpire and the field umpire discussed, and after 5 minutes requested an UIC to come to the field to answer the question. After approx 10 minutes, and the UIC going to the ASA table to check the official Roster, it was determined that this player was on the roster but was not on the line -up. What should the ruling have been? And should the official game clock have been stopped during this time, since the Umpire didn't know the ruling himself?

Just curious, wanna get this straight before getting into additional important games this Summer.

[wadeintothem]

This is an irritating situation because an umpire was not doing their job.

Rostered players can be added at any point in the game and is a very common situation.

Presuming the CR was reported to the umpire, the runner is now a legal player and in the game. The umpire should note ALL CRs and should have caught this and as part of the discussion with the coach at the time simply added them as a sub and now a legal c/r and reported same to your team. That is a little game management that could have saved a lot of time and stress and is a no brainer for an official, especially at a state tourney.

Since it reached the level of a protest type situation, I believe that the clock should have been stopped. I guess that could be a portion of this protest as well and should have been handled right there.

[Iluvblue]

But is there anything that actually covers when a clock should/can be stopped?

You say "You believe," the clock should be stopped, but is this actually in the book anywhere? I dont think so because I think the rules assume a no clock game, but Im not positive.

It would be nice if this issue were addressed in the tourney rules.

Thanks

[wadeintothem]

Time limits for some play are in the book, but this situation is not officially addressed as far as I know. For serious time consuming injury and valid protestable situation, I've always stopped the clock. For so cal it may be addressed in the yellow book and in general probably should be addressed by tournament rules or at least in the UIC briefing to the umpires.

[Crabby_Bob]

This is an irritating situation because an umpire was not doing their job.

Rostered players can be added at any point in the game and is a very common situation.

Presuming the CR was reported to the umpire, the runner is now a legal player and in the game. The umpire should note ALL CRs and should have caught this and as part of the discussion with the coach at the time simply added them as a sub and now a legal c/r and reported same to your team. That is a little game management that could have saved a lot of time and stress and is a no brainer for an official, especially at a state tourney.

Since it reached the level of a protest type situation, I believe that the clock should have been stopped. I guess that could be a portion of this protest as well and should have been handled right there.

I agree that the umpire should have noted the CR was not listed on the line-up card but does he bring it to the attention of the defense and then allow it? [Upon rereading, the answer is yes :-]. Isn't the defense supposed to be vigilant?

How about this? Twelve on the line-up card and playing DP/Flex. With bases loaded, #8 is scheduled to bat, but #27 steps in the box. #27 hits a 3-run double and DM comes out claiming BOO. OM says scorekeeper has his head where he can't see, it's DP batting. It's not DP's slot. Line-up card has no #27. OM now says it's the right girl who batted. Play-on? Check the dugout for #8? Check the roster and ASA picture cards?

[wadeintothem]

I agree that the umpire should have noted the CR was not listed on the line-up card but does he bring it to the attention of the defense and then allow it? [Upon rereading, the answer is yes :-]. Isn't the defense supposed to be vigilant?

[/QUOTE]

yes, let them know. This is preventative umpiring - preventing a problem.

How about this? Twelve on the line-up card and playing DP/Flex. With bases loaded, #8 is scheduled to bat, but #27 steps in the box. #27 hits a 3-run double and DM comes out claiming BOO. OM says scorekeeper has his head where he can't see, it's DP batting. It's not DP's slot. Line-up card has no #27. OM now says it's the right girl who batted. Play-on? Check the dugout for #8? Check the roster and ASA picture cards?

what?

In ASA, if the jersey number is wrong fix it. No I dont check ID's.

If thats not the question - please clarify.

[monster]

wade clarify subbstitution I know this might be a dumb ?..starters can re-enter 3x and subs 2x for same player b4 plyer is burnt in asa 12u.. ths wknd college had diff rule...Hmmm.

[monster]

substitution...oops

[Comp]

In ASA (fastpitch anyway), each player is entitled to 1 entry, and 1 re-entry. Starting position players all have thier initial entry, the can leave the game and return once. Each substitute may enter the game, leave and re-enter once also, but, only in the batting positition in which they originally entered.

Im not positive on college ball, but I believe only the original starting lineup is entitled to a re-entry.

[wadeintothem]

ASA is different than NCAA
NCAA - only starters can reenter
ASA - Starters and their subs may reenter.. ie everyone can reenter once.


Legal ASA Sub Scenario:

#12 starts as the F3 and Hits
#5 Runs for #12
#12 Reenters
#8 Bats for #12 (#12 is now burnt)
#5 runs for #8
#8 Reenters (#5 is now burnt)