H.S. Umpires

[Columbro]

1. We had a play that kind of took away the momentum of our team during a late rally. We had B1 at bat and R1 on 1st base. B1 hits a long fly ball to r/c who makes a spectacular catch. R1 was kinda slow and failed to make it to 2nd base before being thrown out on a 8-6 putout.

How would the batter be scored? Our scorer says the batter is credited with a fielders choice and the runner is obviously out. I say the batter gets a base hit and the runner is out on a 8-6 putout.


2. The second incident occurred when the opposing team was on defense. We had a runner on 3rd base. A pop fly to center was hit very shallow. The center fielder dives to make a great catch. Our runner goes back to 3rd to tag up and scores easily. The opposing team starts yelling to the players on the field to throw to 3rd to challenge that the tag up didn't occur. BOTH umpires stated they were focusing on the catch and did not watch for the tag up. They called the runner safe but the reversed themselves for the home team. There logic was that since they didn't see the tag up then it didn't happen -- so the batter was ruled out.

I stated that was not the correct way to handle. The umpires initially ruled the runner safe and then revered themselves after the home team started crying. HOW CAN YOU REVERSE SOMETHING THAT YOU ADMITTED NOT SEEING??? The umpires then state that because they missed it, the tag must have been missed.

I was wondering has anyone ever dealt with this before and how did you handle it? BTW, this was a high school tournament using CIF umpires.

[PairOfAces]

The way you stated the first incident makes it sound like a fly ball out (mentioning a great catch), in which case the runner does not have to advance, and must tag up before advancing. But reading on, it appears the batter hit what would have been a single except for the fact your runner was forced out at second. Your scorekeeper was correct (R1 cost batter a base hit).

Second incident - mistake by the umps. If the BU was going out to watch the catch, PU should have been watching for a tag up. It happens.

[PDad]

1. I second PairOfAces post. It is a fielder's choice whenever a runner is forced out - and that includes being called out on an appeal for missing the base - regardless of whether the batter-runner could have been retired at 1B. It sucks, but the batter has to advance all the runners forced to advance in order to be credited with a hit.

2. If the tournament is still in process, it should be reported to the Umpire in Chief (UIC) so they can follow up with the umpires. Otherwise, the umpires should know who missed watching the runner and the embarrassing experience will probably motivate them to be more diligent in the future.

[BearFlagFan]

In 1. I'm confused by your terminology. The word "catch" to a fly ball is an out. What I think you describe is perhaps a great stop or save, possibly on a hop. In that case F8 makes a great play on the ball, but not a catch. If the batter isn't out on the catch than it's a Fielder's Choice.

In 2. I'm surprised at the ruling as described. Umpires are taught to see an out, otherwise it's safe. CIF umps generally use ASA mechanics. With R1 on 3B only, it was PU's call by mechanics. No appeal though - PU just has to say "in my judgment" and it can't be appealed.