They protested the socks

[softballdadcoach]

Trying to pick up the correct optic yellow ball from a choice of three moving targets all at about the same height and oriented toward the batter is an advantage to the pitcher that shouldn't be allowed. .

If your batter can't distinguish between a blob of yellow on a knee pad and the ball in the pitcher's hand there are bigger problems to worry about.

Actually, this is very distracting to a batter when the pitch is coming from the underhand throw in FP. Realize that there is a split second for the batter to catch the ball out of the pitcher's hand, attempt to follow it towards the plate, decide to swing or not, actually execute the swing, and hopefully make contact. The image of another softball-like item on the pitcher's person anywhere near the pitcher's lower body (as in the socks or aforementioned knee-pads) can interfere with the first part of the batting sequence and thereby effectively destroy the whole process. The rule is there for a good reason, I just wish it were enforced (or not) the same every game, every tournament, etc...

[softballdadcoach]

Spazsdad, glad to see you have such an open mind and can join in a meaningful discussion without resorting to name-calling.

Not once did I say anything about explaining why my team can't hit a certain pitcher--I am just offering an opinion/explanation for the rule as I see it. And EVERY coach should complain about an illegal pitch--you're telling me that if your pitcher is killing my team with an illegal pitch my response should be to work harder with my team to the point that they can hit not only legal pitches but also the illegal ones and not protest the pitches?

Since you don't know me, I will tell you that I have made my own pitcher stop throwing illegal pitches in a game even though the umps and other coach were either oblivious or ignorant of the rules. I also don't know you, but based on your posts on this subject you are not the kind of coach I prefer to compete against...

[anonlooker]

Oh come on! Should MLB ban white uniforms? Why is a football the color of mud, instead of, say, pink?
If your batters can't tell the difference between a knee pad and a ball coming at 55+ mph, they should be on the sidelines with pom poms. Rah!

[softballdadcoach]

Oh come on! Should MLB ban white uniforms? Why is a football the color of mud, instead of, say, pink?
If your batters can't tell the difference between a knee pad and a ball coming at 55+ mph, they should be on the sidelines with pom poms. Rah!

Re-read my note--in less than a second, a batter has to see the ball in the pitchers hand and as it leaves the hand, decide whether or not to swing, actually execute the swing, and put the bat on the ball--all in order to SUCCESSFULLY HIT THE BALL. And putting those slender bats on a ball coming in at 55+ MPH is aready one of the single most difficult activities to accomplish in sports, IMO. Anything that distracts the batter during this process gives the pitcher an unfair advantage. It is the same reason they call balks on pitchers--it gives the pitcher an unfair advantage.

Therefore there is a rule in place against any distracting item on the pitcher's person--like it or hate it it is a rule on the books that has a legitimate reason to be there and should be enforced routinely and consistently (this is my biggest beef with both this rule and the illegal pitch rules--call it when it occurs based on the rules we all agree to abide by when we step onto the field). I have no problem with anyone opining that the rule is ridiculous or unnecessary but don't be condenscending of those who insist on playing by all the rules and expect the same courtesy from others.

I am of the same opinion in situations where there is no rule covering an 'unfair advantage'--our last tournament, one of the opposing coaches, when on the 1st base side when at-bat kept looking at our pitching coach giving signs to the catcher and relaying the pitches to the batter. He continued even when our coach kept turning her body to cover the signs even to the point that he was leaving the coaches box to do so (and complaints about that got no reaction from the umpires). In addition, a couple of parents for the opposing team were sitting close to home plate and picked up on any pitches the 1st base coach missed out on and called them to the batter. This is a situation where there is no rule, but that don't make it 'right'.

[wadeintothem]

He continued even when our coach kept turning her body to cover the signs even to the point that he was leaving the coaches box to do so (and complaints about that got no reaction from the umpires). In addition, a couple of parents for the opposing team were sitting close to home plate and picked up on any pitches the 1st base coach missed out on and called them to the batter. This is a situation where there is no rule, but that don't make it 'right'.

Since you know there is no rule why would you whine to the umpire?

It never makes a difference. I've never seen it matter. I've had the base coach know every sign and shout the pitches to the batter, I think it just confuses the batter. I'd watch the pitch he'd call out and he was right every time.

Ive had a coach know the signs, so tell his players secret signs about those signs and he would shout those out. "Hit it deep" would mean change up, "Wait on it" means rise ball, etc.. different stuff.

I've had the defense coach get pissed and just start yelling his pitches out, and he wasnt lying. That didnt even help the batter.

Just play the game, hit the ball. Jeez.

[softballdadcoach]

He continued even when our coach kept turning her body to cover the signs even to the point that he was leaving the coaches box to do so (and complaints about that got no reaction from the umpires). In addition, a couple of parents for the opposing team were sitting close to home plate and picked up on any pitches the 1st base coach missed out on and called them to the batter. This is a situation where there is no rule, but that don't make it 'right'.

Since you know there is no rule why would you whine to the umpire?

It never makes a difference. I've never seen it matter. I've had the base coach know every sign and shout the pitches to the batter, I think it just confuses the batter. I'd watch the pitch he'd call out and he was right every time.

Ive had a coach know the signs, so tell his players secret signs about those signs and he would shout those out. "Hit it deep" would mean change up, "Wait on it" means rise ball, etc.. different stuff.

I've had the defense coach get pissed and just start yelling his pitches out, and he wasnt lying. That didnt even help the batter.

Just play the game, hit the ball. Jeez.

Wade, knowing full well there was no rule against 'stealing signs' our complaint was about the 1st base coach leaving the coaches box (well-chalked for this tournament) and being closer to home plate than 1st base. For that, there is a rule, but the umps wouldn't enforce it. Your answer to our complaint about an obvious rules violation would be "Just play the game, hit the ball. Jeez"? From what I've seen here and on other sites where we both frequently post, I would find that, as your response, not what I normally expect from you.

As to the pitches, the actual pitch isn't the main problem--giving the batter the location is the point. That is a decided advantage because the batter knows whether or not to swing, not necessarily where to swing. You've just taken away much of the pitcher's ability to 'fool' the batter. Our pitcher was frustrated most of the game because her curve and fall-off-the-table changeup (2 of her best pitches) didn't have much effect because the batters knew they were coming not-for-strikes. We walked more than our normal number of girls that game and it is directly contributable to the batters knowing if they should be swinging or not. Unfair advantage to the opposing team when on offense.

Look, maybe it is my old-fashioned sense of fair-play, but as I said in my post, anything that I find that gives an unfair advantage to either side or any player is not in keeping with the 'spirit of the game'. I don't condone it on teams I coach or where my girls play, and expect the same of others (but know I won't get it much of the time).

[wadeintothem]

Wade, knowing full well there was no rule against 'stealing signs' our complaint was about the 1st base coach leaving the coaches box (well-chalked for this tournament) and being closer to home plate than 1st base. For that, there is a rule, but the umps wouldn't enforce it. Your answer to our complaint about an obvious rules violation would be "Just play the game, hit the ball. Jeez"? From what I've seen here and on other sites where we both frequently post, I would find that, as your response, not what I normally expect from you.

You probably havent been paying attention then. I am not nor have I even been an advocate of OOO ..aka over officiating a game.

As to the pitches, the actual pitch isn't the main problem--giving the batter the location is the point. That is a decided advantage because the batter knows whether or not to swing, not necessarily where to swing. You've just taken away much of the pitcher's ability to 'fool' the batter. Our pitcher was frustrated most of the game because her curve and fall-off-the-table changeup (2 of her best pitches) didn't have much effect because the batters knew they were coming not-for-strikes. We walked more than our normal number of girls that game and it is directly contributable to the batters knowing if they should be swinging or not. Unfair advantage to the opposing team when on offense.

I would almost bet, and I'm not hitting this hard,that it was your coaching that caused the problem, not the other coach. Your attitude and complaining doubtless increased her awareness and anxiety of the problem.

Why dont you post a thread and learn how to handle the situation so that it doesnt mess up a pitcher? In fact, I know there are ways for you to use it for your advantage.

There are many teams that would smear the crap out of that team, it wouldnt matter if the pitch locations were printed on the score board. Some how, people are able to win national championships and skate by teams like you are describing.. and teams that complain about it.

Some of those coaches are on this forum, and I've worked their games in high level, qualifying, and national championship play. Post a thread.

Use this as an opportunity for you to learn how to handle, not as a reason to whine at the umpire.


And I already told you how the good teams do it. They have little sayings so you dont even know and even if an umpire deemed it USC, what could they do about that if they dont even know the sayings or know that they are doing it? Some use numbers. You've gotta learn how to deal with it and how to coach without pressing for supplemental assistance from the officials.

I pay attention to it because I try to steal signs too. I try to learn the pick and steal signs and stuff to help me get an jump on whats going to happen.

Coaches stealing signs is very common. ESPECIALLY, IMO, so cal teams. They all play each other so much, they all know each others signals.

At least this coach is letting you know hes doing it. The good ones dont even let you know, so you are just happy as a lark, but they are stealing your signs too.

Umpires are not there to supplement your coaching, defense, and offense. We're not gonna OOO a game because you want to harp on a coach that may wander a bit or want to nag on this or that. You gotta play the game. You gotta score runs to win, bottom line. If you cant do that, and are more worried about coaching the officials instead of your team, youre gonna have a tough time.

[MTR]

Bull!!!

She's lifting her heal, he's stealing our signs, those glasses are distracting my batter, her scrunchie colors are gay and she is intimidating my player, she's got a batting glove hanging out of her pocket.....yada, yada, yada!

It is amazing what these Gene Mauch, Billy Martin, Earl Weaver, (enter clown's name here) wannabes come up with actually thinking they are helping to win a game for their team.

Had a coach at a 16U ASA National (remote field) stop a game by walking onto the field declaring the pitcher had jewelry on under her glove. The umpire asked the pitcher to remove her glove. There was a thin piece of leather tied around her wrist. Umpire told the coach the pitcher was okay. Coach demanded the pitcher be ejected then escalated to wanting a forfeit. The umpire told the coach he would check his rule book fully knowing what the rule was.

The rule book was in his vehicle in the parking lot about 50 yards away. When he returned about 7 minutes later, he told the coach there was no rule banning jewelry unless the umpire deemed it to be dangerous. The umpire told the coach the leather lace was not dangerous and to play ball. When the coach asked if the umpire had stopped the clock for his tirade and was told no, the coach told the umpire he was going to talk to the UIC and that "he would take care of you." So the umpire told him that was fine and that he could go talk to the UIC now since he had to leave anyway!

When the coach reached the UIC at the central complex, the umpire's ruling was confirmed as correct and that the "dangerous" issue was strictly up to the umpire's discretion. The coach went on another tirade in front of the TD who asked the UIC if she could throw this idiot out of the game. She was told as the TD, she could throw him anywhere she pleased.

The entire weekend, everything was the umpire's fault from not ruling a runner out for leaving the baseline (which isn't the rule) while there was no play to not calling a BR out for touching the white portion of the base when there was no play at 1B.

His team lost the tournament because of the umpires, not because they were soundly beaten every game they played.

Bored yet? Point is, a coach doesn't win ballgames nor is it their job to win ballgames. Their job is to put the players in a position to win ballgames and insure it is a level playing field as the rule apply. Thinking that finding fault in others is a way to win will lead to a disappointment in the long run.

[Steve M]

Bull!!!

She's lifting her heal, he's stealing our signs, those glasses are distracting my batter, her scrunchie colors are gay and she is intimidating my player, she's got a batting glove hanging out of her pocket.....yada, yada, yada!

It is amazing what these Gene Mauch, Billy Martin, Earl Weaver, (enter clown's name here) wannabies come up with actually thinking they are helping to win a game for their team.

Had a coach at a 16U ASA National (remote field) stop a game by walking onto the field declaring the pitcher had jewelry on under her glove. The umpire asked the pitcher to remove her glove. There was a thin piece of leather tied around her wrist. Umpire told the coach the pitcher was okay. Coach demanded the pitcher be ejected then escalated to wanting a forfeit. The umpire told the coach he would check his rule book fully knowing what the rule was.

The rule book was in his vehicle in the parking lot about 50 yards away. When he returned about 7 minutes later, he told the coach there was no rule banning jewelry unless the umpire deemed it to be dangerous. The umpire told the coach the leather lace was not dangerous and to play ball. When the coach asked if the umpire had stopped the clock for his tirade and was told no, the coach told the umpire he was going to talk to the UIC and that "he would take care of you." So the umpire told him that was fine and that he could go talk to the UIC now since he had to leave anyway!

When the coach reached the UIC at the central complex, the umpire's ruling was confirmed as correct and that the "dangerous" issue was strictly up to the umpire's discretion. The coach went on another tirade in front of the TD who asked the UIC if she could throw this idiot out of the game. She was told as the TD, she could throw him anywhere she pleased.

The entire weekend, everything was the umpire's fault from not ruling a runner out for leaving the baseline (which isn't the rule) while there was no play to not calling a BR out for touching the white portion of the base when there was no play at 1B.

His team lost the tournament because of the umpires, not because they were soundly beaten every game they played.

Bored yet? Point is, a coach doesn't win ballgames nor is it their job to win ballgames. Their job is to put the players in a position to win ballgames and insure it is a level playing field as the rule apply. Thinking that finding fault in others is a way to win will lead to a disappointment in the long run.

OMG, the one ASA national I've done and somebody posts it here - and that was a few years ago. If you're speaking of a 16&U A Eastern National at Drifton Pa, I was the plate umpire in that game. BTW - that tournament uic is around the board, too.

[wadeintothem]

Jeez, that brings ya out of the wood work to start posting here?

A "We need the umpire to be our 10th man on the field" post?

Well welcome Steve!