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Intentional walk and reverting back an inning ??

Rule question? Get it answered here.

by PairOfAces » Sun Oct 18, 2015 10:37 pm

Scenario:

Championship game, so 7 innings with no time limit. Team A up 3-0 until Team B power hitter knocks a 3 run homer. Team B scores one more run and is up 4-3 after six innings. Getting very dark and no lights on field, but the next inning is started. Team A scores a run in the top of the 7th to tie, and getting darker still. Bottom of 7, team B gets a lead off double and power hitter from earlier up to bat. Team A tells umpire they want to IW power hitter and umpire tells her to go to first base, as she has been walked. Team B doesn't score so still tied after 7, and now it really is tpo dark to play. Umpire calls game, and then awards team B the win/championship, stating that the score reverts back to the inning that finished in the daylight.

Questions - can an intentional walk just be "awarded" without having to throw the 4 balls, thus taking away the opportunity for a wild pitch or passed ball, as IWs are pretty rare and can be difficult to execute.

Is the reverting back to daylight a real rule, or is it a TCS rule, ASA rule, or made up on the spot?

Thanks in advance.
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by Comp » Mon Oct 19, 2015 5:06 am

No fast pitch rule set I am aware of allows for an intentional walk without legally throwing all 4 pitches. It may be a local tournament rule, but is not an ASA, TCS, USSSA, NSA etc rule.

As for the score reverting, unless it also was some obscure local tournament rule it is something the umpire invented.
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by PairOfAces » Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:35 am

Comp wrote:No fast pitch rule set I am aware of allows for an intentional walk without legally throwing all 4 pitches. It may be a local tournament rule, but is not an ASA, TCS, USSSA, NSA etc rule.

As for the score reverting, unless it also was some obscure local tournament rule it is something the umpire invented.



Thanks. But this did occur in the TCS Monster Mash Silver Bracket championship game yesterday.
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by PDad » Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:35 am

TCS uses ASA rules with a few modifications of their own. I don't see a mod for IBB. HS baseball is the only ruleset I recall that awards 1B without throwing pitches.

The score would have reverted if the 7th inning wasn't completed since the visitors tied the game in the top of the inning. If it became too dark to finish the 7th inning, the umpire should have ended the game then.

I would expect the TD to make that decision to break the tie rather than the umpire.
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by UmpSteve » Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:05 pm

As others have stated, there is no provision to intentionally walk without throwing pitches in any major softball rule set.

Conversely, just about EVERY rule set says something like (quoting ASA):

"The score of a called regulation game shall be the score at the end of the last complete inning, unless the team second at bat has scored an equal number or more runs than the first team at bat in the incomplete inning."

In other words, if the home team doesn't get a chance to at least tie in the bottom of the inning, then the score reverts to the score at the end of the last full inning. It doesn't matter why the game was called; weather, rain, field conditions, or insufficient lighting. That is ASA, NCAA, NFHS, ISF: anyone with a real set of rules.

I would disagree with PDad (unless I am misunderstanding his post) that this (too dark to play) is or should be a TD decision. The umpire (plate umpire, if more than one) has the rule book authority to determine when a game can no longer be safely continued. The only decision the TD has is to determine if the game is to be suspended and completed at another time or place, or if it is called and the game is over.
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by PairOfAces » Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:22 pm

The 7 inning game was completed, in very dark conditions, and the score was tied. Team A scored a run in the top of the 7th to tie and Team B was not able to score in the bottom of the 7th. It was a close call to allow the 7th inning to start in the first place, and absolutely no way to play an ITB.
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by PDad » Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:06 pm

UmpSteve wrote:Conversely, just about EVERY rule set says something like (quoting ASA):

"The score of a called regulation game shall be the score at the end of the last complete inning, unless the team second at bat has scored an equal number or more runs than the first team at bat in the incomplete inning."

Where does ASA have this? It seems more like a paraphrased combination of a couple rules in 5-3.

Is your quote talking about runs scored in the incomplete inning or the game? I like it if it's the last inning, however 5-3E appears to be the game. It's not fair to declare a tie if the first team takes the lead after trailing in the incomplete inning and the second team ties the game before it is called. I've always thought the game should revert if it is a better outcome (win/tie) for the second team - they shouldn't be disadvantaged by an incomplete inning.

I would disagree with PDad (unless I am misunderstanding his post) that this (too dark to play) is or should be a TD decision. The umpire (plate umpire, if more than one) has the rule book authority to determine when a game can no longer be safely continued. The only decision the TD has is to determine if the game is to be suspended and completed at another time or place, or if it is called and the game is over.

You misunderstood my post - darkness is the umpire's call, however they can't call it retroactively or revert the score after the last inning was completed. The TD, not an umpire, should determine how to deal with a tie championship game called for darkness.
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by UmpSteve » Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:43 pm

First, I misread the initial post. I didn't see the part that the bottom of the 7th was completed.

In that case, nothing reverts; it is a regulation tie game. ASA 5.3-E.

PDad, my prior quote was 5.6-A, Game Winner. But it presumes what I misunderstood, that the home team didn't get to finish the bottom of the inning.

In this actual case, the umpire was not only incorrect, it isn't his decision. The TD can leave it a tie and declare co-champions (5.6-B), or arrange to complete the game as suspended (5.3-F).
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by PairOfAces » Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:47 pm

UmpSteve wrote:First, I misread the initial post. I didn't see the part that the bottom of the 7th was completed.

In that case, nothing reverts; it is a regulation tie game. ASA 5.3-E.

PDad, my prior quote was 5.6-A, Game Winner. But it presumes what I misunderstood, that the home team didn't get to finish the bottom of the inning.

In this actual case, the umpire was not only incorrect, it isn't his decision. The TD can leave it a tie and declare co-champions (5.6-B), or arrange to complete the game as suspended (5.3-F).



I assume the TD made the decision, as he was there to hand out the trophies. It was a great game and it would have been nice to have the ability (lights) to play the ITB.
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by Makina » Tue Oct 20, 2015 1:39 pm

Sounds like this was at Kit Carson, you could have asked the TD to play the TB on the other fields that have lights. Sounds like the coaches agreed to the final result? Sounds fishy as the only way the score could revert back, is the game being called before the 7th inning was finished.

Intentional walks requires the pitches to be thrown, b4 awarding.
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