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NCAA defensive shifts vs position changes?

Rule question? Get it answered here.

by PDad » Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:57 pm

NCAA rules require teams report all defensive position changes in addition to substitutions. Oklahoma employs an unusual shift of 6 players when Paige Lowary pitches to a RH batter and the Kansas coach appeared to challenge it as an unreported player violation in Saturday's game.

OU shifts 4 players around the infield (2B -> short RF, SS->2B, 3B->SS and LF->3B). They also flip the other 2 outfielders so F8 is playing along RF line and F9 is in CF, which the KS coach apparently challenged as an unreported change after Pendley caught a fly ball along the RF line for the 3rd out. The umpires had discussions with both coaches and amongst themselves before finally resuming the game.

I'd like to hear what NCAA umpires like UmpSteve have to say about this non-call.
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by UmpSteve » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:07 pm

Sorry for the delay in response; have had a few long days with midweek games.

I believe it was a good "no call". NCAA 6.6.4 says a player is NOT considered to have changed defensive positions if she does not exchange her (conventional) position with another player (in a conventional position), but is only temporarily stationed a at different (nonconventional) location on the field as part of a shift. The rule specifically mentions a 4th outfielder or a 5th infielder; and approved rulings also add when F3 and F4 adjust in a slap defense, where F4 is closer to 1st base than F3. (NOTE: parenthetical additions by me)

By this stated exception, and what appears to be the intent, repositioning the remaining two outfielders as part of the overall shift to 5 infielders shouldn't be considered an unreported defensive change, either.

I'm sure this has been kicked up the food chain for an official ruling, and they may have gotten one by phone during that game. But I would be really surprised if this was considered anything but part of the shift.

Incidentally, a recent survey of coaches and umpires of proposed rule change topics for the 2018-2019 cycle questioned the need and purpose of requiring those defensive changes to be reported at all. Certainly any decent SID (assumably paying attention) in any collegiate setting can keep reasonable stats and assign assists, putouts, and errors to the responsible player ..........?? Hopefully that can be reconsidered.
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by PDad » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:59 pm

UmpSteve wrote:I believe it was a good "no call". NCAA 6.6.4 says a player is NOT considered to have changed defensive positions if she does not exchange her (conventional) position with another player (in a conventional position), but is only temporarily stationed a at different (nonconventional) location on the field as part of a shift. The rule specifically mentions a 4th outfielder or a 5th infielder; and approved rulings also add when F3 and F4 adjust in a slap defense, where F4 is closer to 1st base than F3. (NOTE: parenthetical additions by me)

By this stated exception, and what appears to be the intent, repositioning the remaining two outfielders as part of the overall shift to 5 infielders shouldn't be considered an unreported defensive change, either.

Thanks Steve. F8 and F9 do exchange positions, so the question is whether they are "conventional" positions. OU doesn't have anyone covering LF.

Here's a link to a video - http://www.oudaily.com/sports/oklahoma-softball-sooners-find-success-with-unorthodox-fielding-shift/article_dc693c6c-14b4-11e7-adaa-ef5632be8fc9.html. The OF'er in view is F9 and F8 is out of view along RF line.

I learned about NCAA's reporting rule when it was called against my DD's team a couple years ago.
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by UmpSteve » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:22 pm

It is my observation that our current Rules Editor, a former coach-member of the Rules Committee, leans more to the intent and logic to a rule than her predecessor, who ruled based on exact wording (and parsing of that wording) of a rule. I see this case as being contained within two contradicting thoughts; 1) it's part of a shift, and 2) the 2 remaining outfielders have at least crossed (if not truly exchanged; but I can see it as similar to a slap defense crossover). So which thought takes precedence?

My opinion (FWIW) is that it is safer/better for the game to see it as all part of one shift, and inclusive of infielders and outfielders, rather than an infield shift with an outfield exchange. And that seems to be the logic applied by the umpires in that game when challenged.

It seems to me that until something is specified as required in one version only (F1 must engage the pitching plate with both feet and with hands separated and pause, for example), then alternate versions remain acceptable (can take the signal on or off the pitching plate, as long as .....). In that vein, this is part of the shift, IMO.
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by PDad » Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:08 pm

Gasso got a little animated arguing her case to the umpires and then the crew discussed it among themselves for awhile, so it looked like they thought it had some merit. The TV announcers didn't know what was going on and I didn't hear or see an explanation afterward, so I was curious about it.

Thanks for sharing your well thought out and presented insights.
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by jtat32 » Sun Apr 30, 2017 12:36 am

What is the penalty for an unreported defensive change or substitution?
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by PDad » Sun Apr 30, 2017 1:27 pm

jtat32 wrote:What is the penalty for an unreported defensive change or substitution?

Effect varies by who reports it and when. If called in this case, offense would have chosen to have out nullified and batter resume from previous count.

8.3.3 Unreported/Misreported Players. (See also Appendix B.) An unreported/misreported player is one who has a right to change defensive position, enter or re-enter the game but has not been reported or has been inaccurately reported to the umpire before her participation.
The following regulations govern unreported/misreported substitutions, players, defensive changes and re-entries:
8.3.3.1 If the coach in violation informs the plate umpire before the offended team’s challenge, there is no penalty regardless of the length of time the unreported/misreported player was in the game. The unreported/misreported player shall be declared officially in the game.
8.3.3.2 If an unreported/misreported player is reported to the plate umpire by the opposing team before a pitch is made, there is no penalty. The unreported/misreported player shall be declared officially in the game.
8.3.3.3 If the unreported/misreported player is reported by the defense before the offensive coach in violation informs the umpire and: ...
8.3.3.4 If the unreported/misreported player is the base runner placed on second base in the tiebreaker or is a pinch runner, and a pitch has been thrown and: ...
8.3.3.5 If the unreported/misreported player is reported by the offense before the defensive coach in violation informs the umpire, and:
8.3.3.5.1 The unreported/misreported player has made a play, but the next pitch has not yet been thrown, the pitcher and all infielders clearly have not vacated their normal fielding positions and have not left fair territory, or it is the last play of the game, and the umpires have not yet left the field.
EFFECT—The unreported/misreported player is declared officially in the game. The offensive team has the option of taking the result of the play or having the last batter return and assume the ball and strike count she had before the report of the unreported/misreported player with each base runner returning to the base legally occupied at the time of the last pitch.

8.3.3.5.2 The unreported/misreported player has made a play, and the next pitch has been thrown, or the pitcher and all infielders have clearly vacated their normal fielding positions and have left fair territory.
8.3.3.5.3 The unreported/misreported player has not made a play, and a pitch has been thrown.
EFFECT—(8.3.3.5.2 and 8.3.3.5.3)—The unreported/misreported player is declared officially in the game, and all play will stand.
Notes:
1. If an unreported/misreported player is also an illegal player, the penalty for an illegal player applies.
2. Violation of the unreported/misreported player rule may be reported to the umpire at any time as long as the player is still in the game.
3. If the player in violation is the pitcher or catcher, delivering or receiving a pitch is considered making a play.
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by jtat32 » Sun Apr 30, 2017 7:18 pm

Thanks PDad - never thought much about what the consequences of a run of the mill unreported defensive substitution would be, but would have guessed approximately what is stated in the rules you provided.

Definitely an interesting scenario from the OU game.
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by Sam » Thu May 25, 2017 3:07 pm

There was no real argument. The rule is clearly intended to cover subsititutions/pitching changes. If not....following the KU reasoning......the argument would be that position 7 or 8 no longer exists.....so the rules would have to create another number for that position.....and the rules don't provide for that.....so a 7 is still a 7, an 8 is still an 8, and a 9 is still a 9.
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by PDad » Fri May 26, 2017 2:00 pm

Sam wrote:There was no real argument. The rule is clearly intended to cover subsititutions/pitching changes. If not....following the KU reasoning......the argument would be that position 7 or 8 no longer exists.....so the rules would have to create another number for that position.....and the rules don't provide for that.....so a 7 is still a 7, an 8 is still an 8, and a 9 is still a 9.

Read the NCAA rule I posted - 8.3.3 covers all defensive position changes. In the one I witnessed, coach reported the player substitution, but didn't report the sub and another player were swapping defensive positions (neither was pitching).

In OU's case, position 8 still exists. KU's reasoning was F8 and F9 had switched positions without being reported.
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