UPDATED! 12u Top Team Ranking – Pre ASA Nationals Poll!

[spazmom]

bracketologist, you seem to know your stuff. If the CTS pitcher is top 5, what teams do the other top 4 pitchers play for?

I think all of the below teams have one top pitcher that is in the top 10 12u pitchers in So.Cal. Not to say that they are "the best" 12u pitchers (i.e., if the pitcher for California Grapettes that pitched at ASA Nationals last year was truly a 96' - she would head this list)!

Firecrackers
Corona Angels Knighten
CA Rebels
So Cal Jynx
CTS

There are very good pitchers who play for poor defensive teams or are paired with a coach whose pitch calling does not suit their style. Example: PowerSurge 96, had a very good pitcher who never seemed to "fit" with the coaches style - I think she pitches in 14u now. I expect to see some good pitchers on bad or so-so teams in the Fall, and in Spring some of the smarter 12u B & C+ teams or C level 14u teams will pick them up.

Bracketologist, you must be a Power Surge insider! Interesting insight. I was suprised to see their pitcher at a recent friendly pitching for Strokes 14u. Quite a step down from what I saw. So in your opinion, if pitchers leave bad defensive teams, why would a pitcher leave a team that appears to be very well rounded?

[bracketologist]

bracketologist, you seem to know your stuff. If the CTS pitcher is top 5, what teams do the other top 4 pitchers play for?

I think all of the below teams have one top pitcher that is in the top 10 12u pitchers in So.Cal. Not to say that they are "the best" 12u pitchers (i.e., if the pitcher for California Grapettes that pitched at ASA Nationals last year was truly a 96' - she would head this list)!

Firecrackers
Corona Angels Knighten
CA Rebels
So Cal Jynx
CTS

There are very good pitchers who play for poor defensive teams or are paired with a coach whose pitch calling does not suit their style. Example: PowerSurge 96, had a very good pitcher who never seemed to "fit" with the coaches style - I think she pitches in 14u now. I expect to see some good pitchers on bad or so-so teams in the Fall, and in Spring some of the smarter 12u B & C+ teams or C level 14u teams will pick them up.

Bracketologist, you must be a Power Surge insider! Interesting insight. I was suprised to see their pitcher at a recent friendly pitching for Strokes 14u. Quite a step down from what I saw. So in your opinion, if pitchers leave bad defensive teams, why would a pitcher leave a team that appears to be very well rounded?

A pitcher will leave a very well rounded team, when the environment does not support their future development as a pitcher. Every pitcher that will eventually successfully pitch at the highest competitive level in 16u & 18u has to develop – 1. Confidence. 2. Mound Presence and 3. An “out” pitch. If a 12u -14u pitcher is not being provided an opportunity to develop all three maybe they should investigate an opportunity to do so. Note the top 18u gold teams in general do not “grow their stud pitchers” instead they steal them! It’s good to play for a well rounded team, but the ultimate goal for a pitcher that wants to continue to pitch is to find an environment that will enable her to do so.

This weekend I over heard one of the top ten team 12u pitchers dad state that he is going to move his daughter in the Fall to another team because the current situation does not provide her an opportunity to develop (i.e., she is pitching alot but not developing). Some have a long term view………..

Also note which pitcher is currently getting "more" exposure and reputation - the top pitchers on the CA 96 & Firecracker OR the CTS pitcher. The same thing happened last year in 12u!

[YellowBalls]

Bracket - expand on what you mean by exposure and reputation in 12U. First, CTS is 14U and this pitcher, although a 96 should be considered for the division in which she plays - 14U. Yes, she is getting recognized as a top "12U" pitcher, but shouldn't she be placed into the 14U discussions instead?

The pitchers playing for CA96 and Firecrackers already have reputations of being good but are you saying they are not recognized as much because they are already supported with good defense and expected to be good (i.e. not developing?) or because the CTS pitcher stands out on team or? Kind of confused on your point there, sorry it's been a long day!

[bracketologist]

Bracket - expand on what you mean by exposure and reputation in 12U. First, CTS is 14U and this pitcher, although a 96 should be considered for the division in which she plays - 14U. Yes, she is getting recognized as a top "12U" pitcher, but shouldn't she be placed into the 14U discussions instead?

The pitchers playing for CA96 and Firecrackers already have reputations of being good but are you saying they are not recognized as much because they are already supported with good defense and expected to be good (i.e. not developing?) or because the CTS pitcher stands out on team or? Kind of confused on your point there, sorry it's been a long day!

No problem. I am not sure where the CTS pitcher belongs, this past weekend she pitched three games in one day in the 12u age bracket - while the CTS 14u team played in the other division!

Realistically knowing Stan (who runs CTS), the 96’ pitcher will most likely play in 12u come ASA time. Why? CTS has very good 14u players, the SS is great, and the pitching is solid – but does Stan really believe the 12u pitcher playing up will make his 14u team a “match” for Victory Campbell 14u (2nd place ASA nationals), Corona Angles 94 (3rd place at Nationals) & Lakewood/Firecrackers 94 (1st place Nationals), So Jets (1st ASA state) and Wildcats 94 (top three at ASA state)…. All returning 14u Teams! No way …! I know Campbell’s 14u team has played and beat some top 18U gold teams (top as in top 20 finishers at 18U Gold Nationals). A 96’ pitcher will not put you over the top with that group.

In the end, my money is on Stan building a team around the 96 pitcher in 12u! The 1-0 lost to PowerSurge 96 ensures me that 2-3 solid players moving to CTS can make them a serious contender. The only thing stopping CTS from being a serious contender is Stan’s past history of ducking the top ASA teams. If Stan puts out that his goal is ASA Nationals and signs up for Fresno Classic, OC friendlies and the other key ASA tournaments he will be able to complete with any 96 team!

Now comparing the pitchers is hard, but realistically the Firecrakers 96 are an offensive team… they are going to score runs .. so pitching for them is less stressful then pitching for CTS! Example: This past weekend the CTS 96 pitcher gave up a home run in the game against the OC Crush and CTS lost 1-0. Do you see the pattern CTS loses 1-0 all the time. How many runs would the Firecrackers 96 put up against OC Crush? There is no contest pitching for CTS is much harder and takes a different mind set then pitching for the Firecrackers and CA 96….. ask the famous college pitcher from Univ Texas about the pressure of pitching with no offensive support!

Also remember that the pitchers that have offensive support benefit from the opposing batters believing that they have to score a lot of runs to win. When teams play the CTS (pitcher led type of teams) batters are only looking for one big hit and only need 1 run to win. So your 3-4-5 batters can go 1-15 and you win against CTS.

The pitchers for the Firecrackers, CA 96, etc are all developing… they are learning how to lead a team with very high expectations and the pressure that beings with it. So they are gaining confidence and the mound presence/leadership needed to succeed at the higher levels. The CTS pitcher does not exist in a world of “Win ASA Nationals in 2009” or bust …. So she will have to learn how to deal with high expectations and pressures later! But she does have an opportunity to develop one heck of an “out” pitch!

What would be interesting is to track the strikeout per 6 innings and the strikeout-to-hard hit ratios of the different pitchers. Who in 12u leads in strikeouts? I am not sure!

[redzone]

For the record, the Firecrackers played CTS at Hickman Field in September. I'm sorry I don't know the CTS pitcher's name. She was very good. She struck out the first four batters she faced.

Then the Firecrackers scored two in the third inning, two in the fourth and one in the fifth. Firecrackers won, 5-0. The CTS pitcher finished the game with 6 strikeouts.

The Firecrackers pitcher, Danielle Parlich, threw a 2-hit shutout with 9 strikeouts.

[spazmom]

What the heck in an "out" pitch and why is it the travel ball coaches job to teach it (it is what the PS96 coach was not teaching the PS96 pitcher which is why she left to play for a bad team). I would think it is the job of her pitching coach. And in my opinion, mound presence and confidence comes with success. You are more likely to experience success with a well rounded team than a crappy one because you need all the components of a team and not just pitching to be successful. Your arguments are just not passing the sniff test...

[Under the Radar]

Who would you say the top 97 teams are out there and who would the top Pitchers be that are 97's?????

[Iron Ballls]

I would still say the Corona Angels 97 and the new Batbuster team that won it all in 10U. Still not sure which one they are???Couple other teams might go back & forth but these 2 teams should battle it out in the long run. Still way to early to call this but thought I would add what I have heard.

[bracketologist]

For the record, the Firecrackers played CTS at Hickman Field in September. I'm sorry I don't know the CTS pitcher's name. She was very good. She struck out the first four batters she faced.

Then the Firecrackers scored two in the third inning, two in the fourth and one in the fifth. Firecrackers won, 5-0. The CTS pitcher finished the game with 6 strikeouts.

The Firecrackers pitcher, Danielle Parlich, threw a 2-hit shutout with 9 strikeouts.

Thanks Redzone for making my point, Firecrackers are an offensive team – so striking out 6 firecrackers is a bigger accomplishment then 9 k against CTS. Please note CTS has lost to PowerSurge 96 2x (5-0, 1-0), Firecrackers 96 (5-0) and OC Crush (1-0). Do we all notice the pattern – zero (0) runs for CTS. I am sure the PowerSurge & Crush scorekeepers can tell us the number of K’s their players had against CTS. I think the HB Breeze 97 pitcher had over 5 k’s against CTS.

I bet everyone at the game knew the game was over when the Firecrackers scored 2 runs in the 3rd inning. That gave the CTS Pitcher three more innings to focus on developing her pitches.....

[bracketologist]

What the heck in an "out" pitch and why is it the travel ball coaches job to teach it (it is what the PS96 coach was not teaching the PS96 pitcher which is why she left to play for a bad team). I would think it is the job of her pitching coach. And in my opinion, mound presence and confidence comes with success. You are more likely to experience success with a well rounded team than a crappy one because you need all the components of a team and not just pitching to be successful. Your arguments are just not passing the sniff test...

An “out” pitch is critical for a pitcher (for a pitcher an out pitch is a get out of jail free card - the only problem is it never works 100% of the time)! My only point is in playing for a team that’s ultimate goal is winning vs. playing on a team that is focused on player development at the 12u level may be that a pitcher on the development team has more of an opportunity to work on developing a specific pitch. It is not the responsibility of a Manager to teach a pitcher how to pitch ….. but all great pitchers have at some time in their development benefited from a Manager that put their development above winning a specific game!

Example: MLB Cy Young Award winner Johan Santana has one of the best change-ups in baseball. How did he develop it? In the Minor leagues his Manager often had him throw 20 change-ups in a row! Do you really care if Santana’s Minor league team won any of those games?

Can anyone tell us who were the top 1-5 12u pitchers 11 years ago OR is it easier for us to name one of the pitchers in this years College World Series?

Let me know when you see the Firecrackers 96, CA96 or PowerSurge pitchers throw the same pitch 20 times in a row when they play each other.