UPDATED! 12u Top Team Ranking – Pre ASA Nationals Poll!

[hotwheels]

Going fishin'

Come on....take the bait!

[ice_67]

Also note which pitcher is currently getting "more" exposure and reputation - the top pitchers on the CA 96 & Firecracker OR the CTS pitcher. The same thing happened last year in 12u!

The only exposure that means anything is college scout exposure. I don’t think any college scouts are watching 12 year olds. Maybe putting their names on a watch list, but would never spend any time watching them pitch. Too much can happen between the ages of 12-15 for them to waste their time.

Just my opinion.

[bracketologist]

Let me know when you see the Firecrackers 96, CA96 or PowerSurge pitchers throw the same pitch 20 times in a row when they play each other.

My kid doesn't throw the same pitch 20 times in a row at her lesson

[color=#0000FF]I hope not! Because you would be paying alot money to have a pitching coach watch her start with 20 fastballs down the middle. The 10-20 fastballs down the middle should be done before the lesson clock starts!

Most 12u pitches don't throw the same non-fastball pitch 20 times in a row because they lack the ability to maintain proper form on their fastball (i.e., throwing 20 curve balls in a row makes it harder to throw the fastball with correct mechanics for the majority of 12u pitchers). If your dd can throw 20 non-fastballs in a row and maintain the proper form for her other pitches with good form... she is ahead of the class and you should read the rest of my answer!

Regardless I am sure your dd can throw 20 fastballs in a row so you can read the rest of my answer.[/color]

That gave the CTS Pitcher three more innings to focus on developing her pitches.....

And what about the rest of the team? What are they working on while the pitcher is "developing" her game? Are they just along for the ride while a pitcher throws a pitch over and over until she "gets it right"?

[b]If your dd throws the same pitch 10-20 times in a row, the entire defense will be busy (i.e., learning to read a ball off the bat, gaining an understanding of swing planes, defense positioning for a specific pitch and batter type etc.). You will be surprised where the ball goes (i.e., the same places it goes when you mix pitches.. some good some bad)… and 8 out of 10 times the opponent and parents won’t know what happened. Good defense players will learn just as much as the pitcher! The pro’s do it with $2 million dollar investments, but your telling me your dd 12u team is above this…. Even at a friendly!

I guess having the top youth team in the 12u or 14u division is more important than utilizing a “known” practice that has consistently developed outstanding pitchers at the highest level of competition!

If you watch elite pitchers in big games do they throw more different type of pitches or mix a few pitches? Most are reducing the type of pitches they throw in big games, usually relying on 2-3 pitches. Why? Because there are nine locations on the plate to throw to, and another sixteen places on the edge of the strike area (called pressure pitch points) and another sixteen places on the edge of the pressure pitch points (called chase pitch targets) to throw to without hitting a batter in the batter box or risking a wild pitch. If your dd throws the same pitch at the same speed (i.e., 52 mph) to all these spots she will have an effective velocity range of 44 to 59 mph to the batter! Statistically speaking that is the same variance as a MLB pitching throwing his fastball 4-5x in a row to different locations – with none of the consecutive pitches being “at risk” (statistically more likely to get hit hard… yes MLB teams track this by both pitcher and batter)!

That’s a total of 41 points for your dd or any pitcher to try to place a ball. In the MLB world a pitcher tries to master at least 8 of these zones with 2 pitches. One of these two pitches is the pitchers out pitch.

College coaches (girls) and pro scouts for boys are not impressed by the number of pitches you can mix and match they understand the master at least two pitches rule! IMO 12u travel ball is the time and place to start to master one of these two pitches. If one of these two pitches is going to be a rise ball, then IMO 14u & 16u is the time to develop those. Regardless at some point every successful pitcher has run into a Manager who truly understands the development part of pitching……… this has nothing to do against the rest of the team, but pitching is the key in both baseball and softball. That’s why a number of parents will be shocked when their stud 2nd or SS only receives a partial scholarship to that dream College World Series Program while the 2 Pitchers and 2 Catchers on the team have “full rides”.

I am shocked to find that so many parents and teams are unwilling to sacrifice a few friendlies wins in fall in order to help their pitchers make a significant step in development!

[/b]

Also note which pitcher is currently getting "more" exposure and reputation - the top pitchers on the CA 96 & Firecracker OR the CTS pitcher. The same thing happened last year in 12u!

Would you care to elaborate on what team this happened on last year?

I agree with ICE_67 there is no college exposure at the 12u level. I am talking about exposure to the top 14u & 16u coaches. The goal of most 12u pitchers is to develop, while the goal for the elite 14u pitchers is to position themselves for 16u or a jump to 18u.

In terms of last year, just walk up to a couple of 14u 1994 coaches and ask them who was the 95 pitcher most talked about! If you live in OC any of the High School coaches would probably provide you with your answer... even though 90% probably have not seen her play.

In 1994 it was clearly the pitcher from Ohio at Nationals. Just because a very good pitcher is on a great team at the 12u level, does not mean she is generating more interest. At the 14u, 16u & 18u levels the exposure increases with the success of the team... But at the 12u all of the pitchers still have alot of work to do.

[Skarp]

Wow...I actually read all of that. That's a first.

[spazmom]

quote from Bracketologist"I am shocked to find that so many parents and teams are unwilling to sacrifice a few friendlies wins in fall in order to help their pitchers make a significant step in development!" end quote

I believe it is rare to assemble a group of girls that actually have a shot at winning a National Championship. I see nothing wrong with going for the gold. The opportunity will most likely never present itself again. We do live pitching every practice and l like that this is the opportunity for our pitchers to "develop". All our pitchers also practice outside of team practices at least 2 times a week. I think it is alot to ask to sacrafice everyones game experience to benefit one player. Pitchers should be ready to pitch in a tournament as well as a friendly. The game does not revolve around the player in the circle's development.

[SSdad]

In regards to CTS. Are we talking about the pitcher who just turned 12 and pitches with the 14U team? Does she also pitch for the 12U team? She is a stud. This past weekend SHE was the team. Without her they wouldn't have went as far as they did. I beleive she pitched all 3 elimination games on Sunday. The team is good, but the coach seems like he has attitude. Always complaining, to the umps, the td, whoever will listen.. Heard he almost got tossed by the TD.

side note: The parents on that team were great

[sball14]

In regards to CTS. Are we talking about the pitcher who just turned 12 and pitches with the 14U team? Does she also pitch for the 12U team? She is a stud. This past weekend SHE was the team. Without her they wouldn't have went as far as they did. I beleive she pitched all 3 elimination games on Sunday. The team is good, but the coach seems like he has attitude. Always complaining, to the umps, the td, whoever will listen.. Heard he almost got tossed by the TD.

side note: The parents on that team were great

i saw her pitch this weekend and she is without a doubt one of the best 96 pitchers out their(the best 96 hands down plays 14u bomb squad). the sad thing is she pitched all 3 games on sunday and unless her parents wake up and realize that overuse will most likely lead to arm surgery before she every gets out of high school, no one will ever know how far she could have taken her game. pitching year round at 10u and 12u is insane. overuse injuries for softball pitchers are increasing each year (according to my son's physical therapist)

hey sam, help me out and talk some sense into these parents.

as far as the top 12u goes the top teams are firecrackers, jinx, ps96 and ca96. no clear top team of the four, match ups play a big role. for example, last season fircrackers96 couldn't get past ps96 and ps96 couldn't get past jinx. way to early to make a call on the top 10 since most of this these teams rosters are far from complete.

[ocdad]

In regards to CTS. Are we talking about the pitcher who just turned 12 and pitches with the 14U team? Does she also pitch for the 12U team? She is a stud. This past weekend SHE was the team. Without her they wouldn't have went as far as they did. I beleive she pitched all 3 elimination games on Sunday. The team is good, but the coach seems like he has attitude. Always complaining, to the umps, the td, whoever will listen.. Heard he almost got tossed by the TD.

side note: The parents on that team were great

i saw her pitch this weekend and she is without a doubt one of the best 96 pitchers out their(the best 96 hands down plays 14u bomb squad). the sad thing is she pitched all 3 games on sunday and unless her parents wake up and realize that overuse will most likely lead to arm surgery before she every gets out of high school, no one will ever know how far she could have taken her game. pitching year round at 10u and 12u is insane. overuse injuries for softball pitchers are increasing each year (according to my son's physical therapist)

hey sam, help me out and talk some sense into these parents.

as far as the top 12u goes the top teams are firecrackers, jinx, ps96 and ca96. no clear top team of the four, match ups play a big role. for example, last season fircrackers96 couldn't get past ps96 and ps96 couldn't get past jinx. way to early to make a call on the top 10 since most of this these teams rosters are far from complete.

I have to agree with overuse at such an early age. We played CTS this Sunday and she is a very good pitcher and very tough. One of my hitters hit a shot & tagged her on the arm, it was so bad that when she came up to bat, her arm was just hanging limp on her side until she got into the box. I couldn't believe they kept her in there to keep pitching we were already up 3-1 and then to see her pitch the next game. I was just like, I want to win as bad as the next person, but not at the cost of one of my most talented players & my stud pitcher. I would have just brought in the back up & live with the results. There are always more tourneys in the future.

[bracketologist]

ASA Thanksgiving tournament in Chino Hills

It looks like the ASA Thanksgiving tournament in Chino Hills on November 28-30, 2008 is the official 12u fall season championship tournament as 8 of the top 12 teams will be in attendance, with only 4 not signed up. The Jynx toys for tots tournament could be round 2, but again the CA Rebels are signed up for a different tournament (AA Toys for tots).


I will put out one more poll before the ASA tournament and ask for your help in expanding the top 12 to the top 15 teams. I believe everything I have seen at the field since the first poll has remained the same in terms of the top five (CA96, PS96, Jnyx, Firecrackers96, Ca Rebels – in no particular order) are really the contenders for ASA State & ASA Nationals honors. The OC Batbusters Marquez are currently just outside the top 5 group, but they could match up well with 2 of the 5.

Has anyone seen any of the below teams play other quality opponents and how should the ranking change for the 6 – 15 order? Again a teams grade is more important than their # ranking. A = National Contender (will qualify 100% guaranteed), B+ = National Contender unable to beat all A teams (will qualify – but if your dd is on this team you may have to spend some money on qualifying opportunities) and B = Very Good Team (can qualify – not likely at So Cal states).


Irvine Sting (#7 – TBD)
Team Smith 96 (#8 – TBD)
So Cal Crunch (#9 – TBD)
OC Wildcats 96 (#10 – TBD)
O.C. Batbusters Snow
CTS (only question is will this be a 12u or 14u – they play in 12u in this weeks tournament).
Revenge
Ventura County Misfits
Any others to add to expanding the list to 15 teams?
Do any of the 1997 belong in the Top 15?

Again, the ASA Thanksgiving tournament will provide a lot of answers.

ASA THANKSGIVING TOURNAMENT
November 28–30, 2008

Participating Team List

So Cal Hurricanes
O.C. Batbusters Ray
Corona Angels
Raiders (#12 – TBD)
O.C. Batbusters Snow
California Grapettes
O.C. Batbusters Marquez (#6 – B+)
Fresno Force
Irvine Sting (#7 – TBD)
Nemesis (#11 – TBD)
Revenge
Firecrackers (#1 – A)
Corona Angels Knighten (#2 – A)
San Diego Power Surge (#3 – TBD)
So Cal Wicked
So Cal Jynx (#5 – B+)

Only preseason top 12 teams missing

CA Rebels (#4 – TBD)
Team Smith 96 (#8 – TBD)
So Cal Crunch (#9 – TBD)
OC Wildcats 96 (#10 – TBD)

[artomatic]

and the moral of this post is:

Sometimes when you win, you really lose, and sometimes when you lose, you really win, and sometimes when you win or lose, you actually tie, and sometimes when you tie, you actually win or lose. Winning or losing is all one organic globule, from which one extracts what one needs.