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[PDad]

My comment is not to criticize you. It's meant to identify the problem. And it IS a problem. With throwing it's more a case of lack of attention than it is fiercely held beliefs they way it is with hitting.

No kidding, the hitting forums on sites like DFP are highly contentious.

To keep things in perspective, my earlier post was geared towards improving the instruction that happens within rec leagues, not to churn out high-level hitting coaches. Your last post on the other thread is receptive to age appropriate instruction. We always had a wide range of experience on our rec teams due to early/late starters, so I expand age appropriateness to level of development.

I find it odd you think the lack of consensus is such a big problem since you frequently advocate validating what people say against what the best hitters do. Either you can prove they're all doing the same things or you can't. If you can, it shouldn't be difficult to agree on those as best practices. If you can't, then you should at least be receptive to a set of general things most of them do, including alternatives and variations.

[Mark H]

I find it odd you think the lack of consensus is such a big problem since you frequently advocate validating what people say against what the best hitters do.

That's WHY I frequently advocate such.

.

Either you can prove they're all doing the same things or you can't..

Different paradigms, backgrounds and educations seem to lead some to see one thing and some another.

If you can, it shouldn't be difficult to agree on those as best practices..

Would be nice.

If you can't, then you should at least be receptive to a set of general things most of them do, including alternatives and variations.

I'm completely open to a discussion of the same. My point is, we do not have a sport wide agreement on best practices.

[Mark H]

You said professional hitting coaches can't agree on best practices when it comes to hitting standards. If that is so, why do all major league baseball players hit almost exactly alike.

a study of how to coach kids sounds great. As to your question above, a better question would be if all MLB hitters are alike (excepting in some cases Gwynn, Ichiro etc) from first move of the bat head into the swing plane till contact, why do, for instance, Epstein and Don Slaught hold a debate where they each explain how the other is wrong? The gurus who disagree with them would be many as well.

But to answer your question directly, because regardless of what you were taught, if you don't hit that way, you don't produce the numbers to stick in MLB. You listen to a ML hitter describing what he does and then actually watch what he does you are likely to see something different from what he describes. Doesn't matter if he really knows how he swings. Matters if he knows how it feels when he does it effectively.

[PDad]

Pdad- I think you will find a considerable number of college coaches and DI players agreeing with me. I've seen rec ball players lined up for paid hitting lessons, that had little value even for kids that were age appropriate, but for this group a total waste of time. Please do not confuse best practices with a lack of coaching knowledge relating to young female athletes. Again, professional hitting lessons maybe an option for kids that play high intensity travel ball, high school, or college softball, but not for young inexperienced players that have just begun their career in this great game. There is a time and place for most things.
PS- Again, I've said that coaches, and parents play an important roll as far as instruction is concerned with young players. I'm not against what best hitters do, you made that up. I'm against professional hitting lesson for inexperienced players. I know payed hitting instructors don't want to hear this, so what. Question- Are you a hitting coach?

I have no idea why you directed this at me rather than Mark. Carry on...

[PDad]

... a better question would be if all MLB hitters are alike (excepting in some cases Gwynn, Ichiro etc) from first move of the bat head into the swing plane till contact,

Which body parts are you comparing/ignoring? Do you consider Rod Carew as an exception or the rule? IMHO Carew would be an exception, however Garret Anderson credits Rod with teaching him how to get the bat head into the swing plane on all types of pitches.

You listen to a ML hitter describing what he does and then actually watch what he does you are likely to see something different from what he describes. Doesn't matter if he really knows how he swings. Matters if he knows how it feels when he does it effectively.

True for many/most athletes and undermines the emphasis people blindly place on ex-players. IIRC, reminds me of a Barry Bonds story where he claimed he swung down on the ball until someone showed him videos proving otherwise.

[Mark H]

Yes that would be a story attributed to Don Slaught of Right View.

[Mark H]

Which body parts are you comparing/ignoring?
.

Don't intend to ignore any of them.

[jtat32]

Hitting experts are like all experts, they split hairs over items that most players could care less about. You shouldn't analyze to you become paralyzed. Most players in the major leagues hit the same, and there is plenty of agreement with the basic swing. Most girls need to know nothing about the way experts teach hitting. "Keep in Simple Stupid", is the best book for girls playing softball. Especially when 99% of hitting is natural ability and experience. That being the case with real experts, not to mention the dime a dozen my daughter played college softball experts.
Ted Williams is considered by many the greatest hitter of all times, and mentor to Epstein. With that being said, a lot of things he wrote about was crap. He never got over being struck out by Joan Joyce.

99% of hitting is natural ability and experience? Maybe if you're Yogi Berra and the other 999% is development.

And.....what exactly was the crap that Ted Williams wrote? I'm sure there are flaws in his analysis and writing, but it's a big stretch to say that a lot of it was crap.

[Mark H]

Hitting experts are like all experts, they split hairs over items that most players could care less about..

Sometimes they split hairs. Frequently they disagree about large points.

You shouldn't analyze to you become paralyzed..

Who can argue this general point?

Most players in the major leagues hit the same,.

Yep.

and there is plenty of agreement with the basic swing..

Nope.

Most girls need to know nothing about the way experts teach hitting. "Keep in Simple Stupid", is the best book for girls playing softball..

Depends on the age, learning modality, intelligence etc. As you have said, adapt the teaching methods to the student.

Especially when 99% of hitting is natural ability and experience..

IME, few figure this out on their own. http://imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/oly ... =4&s=0&z=9 Apparently this hitter did. I liked her swing so much I called her gold coach and asked who taught her that swing. He said it was factory equipment. We both agreed that doesn't happen very often.

Put a bat in a kids hands and tell them to hit the ball they are generally going to figure out some method to do it using their arms rather than the big muscles of their body. Then when they can't hit good pitching a few years later they are often told to stand up straight and do something like the guy on the left. http://imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/ana ... =4&s=0&z=9 (someone even sold a gadget to encourage the same http://imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/ana ... =4&s=0&z=9 ) That does result in reducing strikeouts and is exactly where our sport was years back before slow motion video of elite hitters became readily available on the internet and average dads started calling horse puckey on what their kids were being taught vs what they saw elite hitters doing in slow and stop motion (back when 1-0 in ITB was common). A few years later Right View came along and validated what average dads on the net and very few instructors were saying by getting Sue and Mike on video saying the fp swing WAS the MLB swing. For the young among you, you may not realize that was heresy back in the day. Still is in some places but that view is dying with time.

Ted Williams is considered by many the greatest hitter of all times,.

Certainly one of the few in the conversation.

and mentor to Epstein..

I think it was more they were friends so Ted filmed an endorsement for him. I wouldn't equate the teaching of the two.

With that being said, a lot of things he wrote about was crap..

Yeah please elaborate.

He never got over being struck out by Joan Joyce.

Pretty sure he didn't lose any sleep over this. Joyce or Finch etc dazzling a ML hitter is a fun sideshow. Alternatively, the best female hitters would get eaten up by a Nolan Ryan in his prime. Both sets of hitters would have more success after they had seen a few thousand pitches. Just something new. If you think Ted or Bonds in their day wouldn't have hit well after a few thousand at bats against fastpitch style pitching you are ill informed (much lesser athletes hit men's fastpitch pitching leaping and all and I assure you, the men's national fp team pitchers are far beyond a Fernandez, Cat, Finch or Joyce). The best women's hitters would have improving success with experience against a MLB pitcher throwing over hand as well though not to the same extent. Muscle mass matters.

Talked to Coach Joyce myself the first time a couple of weeks ago about a pitcher of ours. Kind of cool to have a conversation with a legend. Seemed a very nice person.

[SDTitans]

So I guess instructing them to hit a dinger is not proper instructions...