Is 16u a dying class?

[TulsaEliteGold]

I definitely agree with you both about where the coaches are at during that 1 week. However, the uncommitted 2011s and 12s who are rostered on good Gold teams will be seen a lot more times throughout the summer at all the Gold and Premier Qualifiers and Exposures like Ind Day, Team NJ, Champions Cup, etc. and the majority of the better ones will probably all already commit long before Nationals.

[ru4u]

Tulsa Elite and the author of this post,

No offense to you guys, but "16u a dying class", is wishful thinking on your part. You probably do not have a 16u team in your organization, so in my opinion, you are biased. 16u is very important to lots of people, including a multitude of college coaches.
16u is not dying, neither is 18u.
We have got to stop trying to get kids on our teams based on fear of missing out on something.
We encourage kids to doubt their status, think of themselves only, and to walk out on a team where everything is perfectly good for them at the present.
Our 16u team has found wonderful competition at this level, and the college exposure has been better than our wildest dreams.

[TulsaEliteGold]

ru4u,

My 1st year 16A team finished 65th at 16A USA/ASA Nationals in Sioux Falls this summer, so I know a little bit about 16A and the exposure that comes with it. Not trying to scare anyone into doing anything. Just discussing what has been discussed a lot over the past month since ASA Rules have changed. I am all for 16A working out, but whether you want to admit it or not, most of the better 16U eligible players are on Gold rosters. Too many teams were counting on College players coming back and they have to replace those kids from somewhere and that is usually from A) Other Gold teams or B) from 16U teams. Even our current Gold roster only has 4 players who are not 16U eligible, the other 13 could play 16s including all 3 pitchers.

Believe me, we do not need to scare any players away from anyones 16U team. Our Roster is full.

[honcho55]

While I respect everyone's opinion, including yours Coach, I have to disagree with your thought process some! I feel that some org. are too interested in moving their players too soon in the interest of the gold team, and not necessarily to the betterment of the player! Most parents won't have the vision, audacity, or whatever to tell their gold coach no, when he wants Little Suzie to play gold. I feel your own statement reflects that! By stating that due to not allowing college players, it will force gold to move up some 16U and maybe even some 14U! Now some of them ages can compete fairly well athletically, they are not necessarilly equipped mentally or emotionally!
You carried 18 players on your Gold roster last year, and if you are playing qualifiers, I would suggest that you will probably for the most part stay in your top 12 players as far as majority of playing time. If you are showcasing, maybe a couple or three innings a game on average. How is this developing a 14U or 16U player in any and all aspects of her game? Shouldn't it be what is in the best interest of each individual player? Even if it makes your gold team weaker for a year?

Unfortunately, we are starting to see girls committing to D1 schools when they haven't even finished their Freshman year in HS! I understand when they come calling it's hard to resist, but if we are totally honest with ourselves, NONE of us are or were, able to think in a mature manner when we were Freshman in HS. I think we are in danger of ruining a lot of girls by rushing them into making choices without having the maturity to make them, and parents that either don't know enough, or are living their dreams through their kid, so they play along! At some point the org. needs to help this as well! IMO! Honcho out

[TulsaEliteGold]

Honcho55, I agree with you 100% and personally have never moved a kid up that wasn't ready to play Gold. I do agree that a lot of teams are doing that though, moving kids up just to fill the spots. Not me or my organization. Please understand that I am speaking in general of what I am seeing alot of teams and org do, not just our org. There are far too many teams trying to play Gold and that is a lot of what causes the problem. I personally have never depended on College players, had a couple come back and play, but never depended on them. I am all about getting the best young talent and developing them and I believe in going with the kids who got you there.

As for developing 16U players who play for my Gold team, there are only 4 players who have to play 18s (2-Catchers, 1-3B, 1-LF) and all 4 of them started for me when they were 16 eligible and were impact players. So, obviously the other 16U eligible players are being developed and get 100% of the playing time at Pitcher, SS, 2B, 1B, RF, CF... Sure they have to compete for playing time, but this isn't rec ball and they are going to have to compete for playing time in college.

As for the maturity level, I would agree 100% that in general that is true, however with the majority of kids who are athletically ready to play Gold, they have generally been playing with older girls their whole lives and are usually mature beyond their age. They play with them in HS also.

I've only ever had one 14U eligible player on my Gold Roster and she was definitely capable; was #2 pitcher who threw 60-61 and hit in the 6 hole, finished the summer with a .409 batting avg and 5 HRs.

As for the number of players I roster, in the past I maintained a small roster of 12-13 girls. Then as you all know in Gold, once you play that first Qualifier, the Roster is locked, no more adding. Well, this happend to us 2 years ago, 1st weekend out #2 pitcher breaks her arm sliding into 2B on a double and #3 pitcher tears a bi-cep muscle and is out for the summer, so that left us with 1 pitcher & 10 total girls for the rest of the summer!! It is physcally impossible to battle through the losers bracket at a Qualifier with 80+ teams and only having 1 pitcher and no subs. This summer, midway thru the summer #2 pitchers parents get a divorce and momma decides little suzy can't play softball anymore because that was dad's deal; another signed senior decides she doesn't want to play every weekend and doesnt tell us until the first qualifier; another one came down with the flu one qualifier weekend; so there we were again battling with only 10 kids and no subs. We still made it to Sundays almost every weekend. Try playing 6 games in a day with no subs in 100 degree heat, now imagine doing it every weekend. I made a commitment to my girls this year that I would never, ever make them suffer through another weekend with no subs.

As for kids rushing into college commitments, again I agree with you 100%. In most of our kids cases, from the outside it may seem as though they rushed in because they committed during their Sophomore or early Junior year, but the majority had been going on unofficial visits for a long time and weighed all their options and they knew it was where they want to go. I actually becomes the Devils Advocate once my girls start getting offers, I tell them all the negative stuff and try to discourage them from committing and then when they still want to committ, its a no brainer. I mean its not like they are taking the first offer that comes along very often. most were heavily recruited by many other programs also.

[Fusion Gold]

I think Jeff brings up some great points, as it is a concern of mine that "Gold" teams that are notorious for acquiring talent from other young teams will only become more reliant on these tactics. And there are other Gold teams, that don't have an organization in place to grow their kids at 12U, 14U, 16U. So those teams are going to have to look for kids on 16U teams or even 14U teams because they can’t riley on the college players anymore.

I feel that organizations that have good coaches, that are actually coaching their kids at 14U, 16U are going to be fine and their philosophy should thrive in this new culture. But there is definitely going to be a tickle down effect that is going to impact 16U at some point. My recommendation to ASA has been to take the same approach with young players as they have with College players, to find a way to keep young kids (I don't know what the age restriction should be exactly, but there should be one) from playing on Gold teams. This may never work, and I know there are allot of examples out there of young kids that have done well at the Gold level, however there has to be a way to govern this pending dilemma.

[Ovr_tha_Fence]

Maybe ASA should restructure the classifications.

Stop at 14U and create two HS divisions.
One lower level division for those girls who are not ready to play at the gold level.
One gold level division.

Just a thought.

[Lefty's Dad]

Maybe ASA should restructure the classifications.

Stop at 14U and create two HS divisions.
One lower level division for those girls who are not ready to play at the gold level.
One gold level division.

Just a thought.

Nice thought but who gets to make that determination? The player, the parent, the travel coach? Just having the divisions seperate wouldn't work, we already have that in a way with 18u and Gold. After 14u everyone will assume they are Gold level talent and the "other level" would be ignored completely. I can't tell you how many teams added Gold to the end of it this past season just to say the are Gold. In your scenario, all teams would add those 4 letters at the end because no one would play with them otherwise. Again, I like the thought but I couldn't see it work.

[honcho55]

Jeff, I wasn't specifically talking about your team, as from all accounts you seem to be doing things the right way. However, you and I both know that there is MANY instances where there is org. that don't care what is best for the kid, but what helps the org. or gold team the most. Whether it be pressuring kids and parents to sign with a big-name school over a smaller one even though the smaller one may be a better fit. Or moving a kid to gold, when staying another year at 16 might be better for her mentally, just because I have a hole at 3rd or P. Luckily, our situation is such that BOTH of DD parents have been exposed to recruiting wars, and know what to expect! Unfortunately, some parents don't know or are being advised by people with other motives. If a girls dream school comes calling with a full ride early, that's one thing, but there is MANY instances of girls committing with out seeing even one other program. Don't think there is a way for ASA to legislate these type of things. But I do feel that it is a moral obligation of our organizations to educate kids, and more importantly PARENTS on these things. My overriding thought is that I will guide my child in a way that will not only prepare her to play college, but contribute significantly from the start! Also have her prepared totally for all that college ball, academics, and life will throw at her. If that means that she spends her first year of 16U eligibility at 16U instead of going Gold(which it does), then so be it! Thankfully, we play for an org. whose coaches understand this!

[Ovr_tha_Fence]

If you combine 16U and 18U into a HS division, then what parameters would you need?

ASA may not make as much money off of the deal, but it would be a much better way to develop younger talent for Gold. It would also provide sufficient exposure opportunities.