Are 12U Houston teams too watered down ?

[JCates]

If you can't put 9 batters in your lineup that hit above 0.300, then your team is "diluted". I find most Texas teams fit this description, whereas the California teams seem to be able to do this routinely. This strong display of Calif batting is what leads to the downfall of Texas teams at nationals IMO. Might be the coaches fault, might be the parents or kids, but Texas is not going to win until we can send teams that can hit through all 9 slots.

From what I saw at 12UA Nationals last year, it was not the hitting that made the difference in the California teams. It was pitching and defense. The teams that went deep had great pitching and played sound defense. They enabled them to win the close games deeper in the tourney. My daughters former team in Houston could knock the daylights out of the ball, but when we faced the great pitching at Nationals that you will face as you progress deeper in the tourney we we could not score because of the great pitching. This left it up to defense and those teams were very strong defensively...you were not going to get that run needed off of a mistake defensively.

[Lunatic Fringe]

Let's face it, the team that makes the least amount of mistakes wins 4 out of 5 times. Good teams do take advantage of mistakes and tend to stay in the winners bracket.

Good hitters can get cold, so I do agree that strong pitching and defense win championships along with not running yourself out of an inning, especially at 3rd base and home plate.

And yes, 12U is watered down, so is 14U, 16U and many 18U teams. What you do about it, I have no idea. I like the sport being popular.

[slaphitter]

From what I saw at 12UA Nationals last year, it was not the hitting that made the difference in the California teams. It was pitching and defense. The teams that went deep had great pitching and played sound defense. They enabled them to win the close games deeper in the tourney. My daughters former team in Houston could knock the daylights out of the ball, but when we faced the great pitching at Nationals that you will face as you progress deeper in the tourney we we could not score because of the great pitching. This left it up to defense and those teams were very strong defensively...you were not going to get that run needed off of a mistake defensively.

I also have seen Cali play and along with what Mr. Gates has said they do not make many mistakes. DEFENCE has always and will always win Championships from the Pro level all the way to our level of sports.

What can Texas teams do. Work heavy on the fundamentals of defense at every practise from the earliest ages. I still love the 1-0 2-1 games where defense and pitching makes teams work hard to manufactor 1 or 2 runs. Now girls and guys that is Fastpitch Softball !!!

Back to the first posting, The top teams look for that 1 special athelete that along with what they already have will put them in a position to compete at Nationals. They can be very selective on who they take. I bet that 1 special player will either be a great defensive outfielder or defensive infielder.

The other teams looking for a few are trying to keep their team alive and kicking. They cannot always be selective. They have to take what is available and hope to mold them into good players. Good luck to all the teams.

[Let's Play Two]

Their fundamentals are not where they should be. Pitchers throwing strikes, fielders fielding and playing catch and hitters making consistent solid contanct. Outfielders need the most work as it is one the hardest thing to do, judge fly balls at this early age.

That was exactly my point earlier and you're right pitching and defense wins championships. Great pitching will always beat great hitting.

This may sound as an easy fix but it just might be. This watered down issue in Texas really comes down to watered down coaching not players. Like I said the talent is there coaches just need to develop it. These successful orgs. in the Texas Glory's, Elite, Fusion, Batbusters and now Mizuno Impulse have all the good coaching but it is all at the top. This is in North Texas. These orgs. need to have coaches clinics and the 8U, 10U, 12U and 14U coaches needs to suck it in and sign up for these clinics. Rec coaches should definitely do the same and sign up for clinics. It's probably a lot of work but it can be done.

[JCates]

Their fundamentals are not where they should be. Pitchers throwing strikes, fielders fielding and playing catch and hitters making consistent solid contanct. Outfielders need the most work as it is one the hardest thing to do, judge fly balls at this early age.

That was exactly my point earlier and you're right pitching and defense wins championships. Great pitching will always beat great hitting.

This may sound as an easy fix but it just might be. This watered down issue in Texas really comes down to watered down coaching not players. Like I said the talent is there coaches just need to develop it. These successful orgs. in the Texas Glory's, Elite, Fusion, Batbusters and now Mizuno Impulse have all the good coaching but it is all at the top. This is in North Texas. These orgs. need to have coaches clinics and the 8U, 10U, 12U and 14U coaches needs to suck it in and sign up for these clinics. Rec coaches should definitely do the same and sign up for clinics. It's probably a lot of work but it can be done.

I agree with you fully, but I would like to take it another step...parents. You have to work with your child at home and that means you have to learn the game well. When you are paying for those lessons for your child, get more bang for your buck by paying attention as well. Video the lessons (I video everyone of my daughter's hitting lessons). Review those videos and listen to what the instructor is saying and showing so that you can work with your daughter and do it correctly.

You then have to spend a lot of time with your DD working with them away from practice. I doubt if many elite players were developed during practice alone. Most coaches, at least until the summer, only get their teams together twice a week. Even the best coaches cannot get their teams prepared for a deep run at Nationals in that amount of time. I wish I had just one penny for every ball I have hit or pitched to my daughter. I could retire today and fully fund her college! When doing this...keep it fun and remember it is not her job to earn a college scholarship. Her job is to have fun while she is young and if she gets a scholarship then that is a bonus!

[slaphitter]

I agree with you fully, but I would like to take it another step...parents. You have to work with your child at home and that means you have to learn the game well. When you are paying for those lessons for your child, get more bang for your buck by paying attention as well. Video the lessons (I video everyone of my daughter's hitting lessons). Review those videos and listen to what the instructor is saying and showing so that you can work with your daughter and do it correctly.

You then have to spend a lot of time with your DD working with them away from practice. I doubt if many elite players were developed during practice alone. Most coaches, at least until the summer, only get their teams together twice a week. Even the best coaches cannot get their teams prepared for a deep run at Nationals in that amount of time. I wish I had just one penny for every ball I have hit or pitched to my daughter. I could retire today and fully fund her college! When doing this...keep it fun and remember it is not her job to earn a college scholarship. Her job is to have fun while she is young and if she gets a scholarship then that is a bonus!

Sometimes we overlook the obvious that sports training has to take the approach of academic studies, every hour in classroom is matched by an equal or more time spent outside the classroom. If a parent, for whatever reason cannot teach the skills then get someone who can, that is if you want to give your dd a good chance to succeed. As Mr. Gates indicated he does video the lessons then repeat that at home.

Hitting ground balls has to match with teaching her the proper fundamentals of fielding those ground balls or fly balls or throwing catching etc.

I like Mr. Gates cannot keep track of the # of hours spent working with my dd. but also as said before keep it fun. Don't burn her out or make her hate the game. You want her to want to come back and learn more. It also gives a Dad the chance to secure a very rewarding bond with your dd. If done right she will love you for it.

[soreshins]

"Watering down" starts with a second year 10U team that has 11 or 12 good ball players. They had a good year and may have done well at ASA Nationals.

Time to move up to 12U and an assistant coach or "dugout dad" due to some slight or difference of opinion decides to form his own team. He takes his kid and 3 or 4 of her friends off the orignal team. The original team now has 7 or 8 returning players and needs 4 or 5 to make a team. The new team needs 7 or 8 additional players before they can play. Both teams are weaker than the orignal team and may be on the road to mediocrity.

Both teams advertise for 2 or 3 players to "fill out" their roster. Somehow they never get the players they need to compete on a national level. Multiply this scenario by 3 or 4 and you see the problem. Texas talent is just as good as California talent, only not as deep. In order to compete with the California teams, 12U teams need to concentrate rather than dilute the talent.

Another problem is that there are very few "top" 12U teams in Texas. In a normal 12U tournament a "top" team may play one or two meaningful games during the entire tournament. The rest are not competitive. When you go to nationals most bracket games are close games. The Texas teams are not accustomed to playing a lot of 1-0 or 2-1 games. The California teams play each other every week and have more close game experience.

Last comment, my experience at ASA Nationals is that generally you hit well enough and generally you pitch well enough. It is the fielding errors and miscues that turn the game. In a 2-1 game it often a defensive misplay that decides the outcome.

[twinsmom]

"
Last comment, my experience at ASA Nationals is that generally you hit well enough and generally you pitch well enough. It is the fielding errors and miscues that turn the game. In a 2-1 game it often a defensive misplay that decides the outcome.

This is SO TRUE!! Many of those being MENTAL mistakes. Not always a true "error" you can put in the book but a miscue none the same.

[DP3816]

"Watering down" starts with a second year 10U team that has 11 or 12 good ball players. They had a good year and may have done well at ASA Nationals.

Time to move up to 12U and an assistant coach or "dugout dad" due to some slight or difference of opinion decides to form his own team. He takes his kid and 3 or 4 of her friends off the orignal team. The original team now has 7 or 8 returning players and needs 4 or 5 to make a team. The new team needs 7 or 8 additional players before they can play. Both teams are weaker than the orignal team and may be on the road to mediocrity.

Both teams advertise for 2 or 3 players to "fill out" their roster. Somehow they never get the players they need to compete on a national level. Multiply this scenario by 3 or 4 and you see the problem. Texas talent is just as good as California talent, only not as deep. In order to compete with the California teams, 12U teams need to concentrate rather than dilute the talent.

Another problem is that there are very few "top" 12U teams in Texas. In a normal 12U tournament a "top" team may play one or two meaningful games during the entire tournament. The rest are not competitive. When you go to nationals most bracket games are close games. The Texas teams are not accustomed to playing a lot of 1-0 or 2-1 games. The California teams play each other every week and have more close game experience.

Last comment, my experience at ASA Nationals is that generally you hit well enough and generally you pitch well enough. It is the fielding errors and miscues that turn the game. In a 2-1 game it often a defensive misplay that decides the outcome.

Shins you are absolutely right! the ASA and local leagues need to set some guide lines on how many select teams are out there. All you need is Money and wham you've got a team! And if the new coaches DD is a pitcher (a really good pitcher) the uninformed think that he must be a good coach! You as a coach should meet some minimum requirements. My biggest pet peeve is the number of coaches that don't know the rules. In short just about every league is dying a slow death and select teams are getting more and more "Watered Down"

When my oldest daughter played you had to be a gamer to play select ball. She's 30 now to give you a point of reference. My young ones are 11 now and I get asked why aren't they playing select? I feel that they're not good enough yet. They probably are but here's why I feel the leagues need to be better supported. A select team plays on average 2 tournaments a month. Let's say they're one of those watered down teams and they go 2 and home. Thats maybe 10-12 AB's a month. If they play league 17-18 games and play one or two tournaments a month they're getting more at bats than those select players. I think it's about time on the dirt, the more the better. JMHO.

[justawatcher]

These successful orgs. in the Texas Glory's, Elite, Fusion, Batbusters and now Mizuno Impulse have all the good coaching but it is all at the top. This is in North Texas. These orgs. need to have coaches clinics and the 8U, 10U, 12U and 14U coaches needs to suck it in and sign up for these clinics.

So the coaches from the younger teams in these orgs don't know what they're doing and none of these orgs send their coaches to clinics? That's what you're saying?