Is 16u a dying class?

[honcho55]

Lefty, I agree anytime you have a sanctioning body try and determine things, then you are asking for problems. I feel that there needs to be wholesale educating of parents as to options, developmental aspects, etc. It would be hard, but we HAVE to find a way to keep orginizational ego's out of the equation, get parents to take off the rose colored glasses, and keep it about the kids. I could care less about whether my kid goes D1 or just decides to play juco, or heck even stop playing! I as a father have an obligation to raise a well-adjusted, financially stable, educated, free-thinking woman! Not a bitter, burned out girl who doesn't enjoy playing, or hates the schools she's at...because she was pushed one way or another by people who DON'T have her best interests at heart! Honcho out

[honcho55]

Maybe one answer is to legislate it to where you play one year of 16U while you are age eligible, even if you've been playing 16U for two years. Kind of like the NBA, you have to play one year of college, before being eligible for the draft! Also, if your kid is playing "A" or gold, parents and players be exposed to a "class" that covers what everything entails as far as college, compliance, expectations, scholarship limits, etc. Also, we HAVE to start making org. accountable and make sure that all colleges that ask about Little Suzy are given exposure to the kid and parents, not just the big names!

[Lefty's Dad]

I couldn't agree more with all of your statements above! Educating players and parents is huge. Too many times I have seen a stud player in 14u get pulled up to Gold level just to find herself sitting the bench more than seeing the field. If they stay down at least one year in 16's they learn to develop just a little bit more and get to play ALOT more. We all know that good 16u teams play 18u teams most of the time anyway (and try to play Gold teams but usually get shafted ). It was nice this Fall to see several familiar faces around the ballparks with DD's playing 16u on VERY good teams. I know several of them were in fact asked to play for Gold teams but made the decision to play 16's this year. Good for them!

[3Bsnag]

I also agree with everything being said here, but let's check reality in where we are today.

Some on this post are from my area. Can you name 5 good 16U teams in this area? Not implying that those 3 or 4 will always win every game, but for the most part, they will dominate.

And really, out of that small group, how many 16U tournaments have you played in the last year? I'm guessing the 0-3 range with the exceptions of qualifiers. So if you are playing 18's or Gold through tournaments and showcases, what's the point? The only point would be 16 Nats.

In my vision of the perfect softball world, we would all be age restricted and recruiting wouldn't start in any way, shape, or form until your junior year. That just isn't the case anymore as many of the larger softball schools will be done with their 2012 class this summer and have been visiting with 2013's since August.

[honcho55]

I agree somewhat 3B, that's why we went to Cali. this fall! Playing up in the fall gives you the best of both worlds, playing 18U, while still keeping the 16U intact! It also sucks, as Lefty's Dad alluded to, that in most 18U tourneys, they won't have the 16U teams playing the higher level Gold or 18U teams! If most 16U players are ready for that level, why not let them play? And the way to make sure everyone gets a look is to let them play the good 18U teams at college looks in the fall, AND parents get those recruiting letters out. Also, I don't think having gold nat's a week after the other nat's was a bad idea. That way all could be seen. Some of the changes lobbied for to ASA, I felt were needed. By the same token, I feel some of the org. heads were in it for themselves, and NOT for what is best for ALL of their girls! As far as your thoughts on recruiting....RIGHT ON. And the way the system is setting up now, there are some girls that will get burned! IMHO..Honcho out!

[TulsaEliteGold]

Wow, these are all some great points, not neccesarrily about the original topic, but great points and alot of them that I agree with.

The only way they could ever truely seperate the ages would be to also put a limit on the # of 18U teams. There's just not enough true age eligible players to go around for all the teams. I don't think they should do it by age either because I can name you many, many Young Sophomores who were definitely ready and leaders on Gold teams and are now leaders in College. Maybe set the limit that you can start playing Gold after Sept 1st of your Sophomore year. This would eliminate the freshman and 8th greaders, which the freshman who could play Gold are very few and far between.

While on the rule changes for Gold, another rule that needs to be added in addition to the elimination of college players is that every player should have to be from the teams region. This would prevent teams from buying talent and flying them in, which happens all the time.

The ideal of a class that parents have to go through is somthing that some organizations already do. The leaders continuely have open door policies with the parents and kids and truely guide them through the entire recruiting process. I have a kid right now that is deciding between D1, D2, NAIA, NJCAA and D3 and the D3 is probably their 1st or 2nd choice right now and I totally support that. I tell our parents and kids #1) I cannot get them recruited and if anyone ever tells them they can, they are full of crap; the only person who can get the kid recruited is the kid themselves; however I can put them in a much better position to be seen, make sure college coaches know exactly who they are and when & where they are playing and will guide them through the entire process until they get their degree. 2) I encourage them to look at all levels of schools D1, D2, D3, NAIA and NJCAA and to choose a school that they like and where they feel they can make an impact and actually play. I do know of other organizations that do not do this stuff though, they tell the parents and kids that they will handle it all and like you said they probably never tell the kid about all the options and thats not right. These are the coaches who will gain a bad rep overtime with college coaches, especially the ones they treat that way because they are not D1 and then that coach takes a D1 job. I know of one coach in particualr at a Major D1 that will not recruit any players from organizations that didn't show him respect when he was coaching Juco ball.

One thing that definitely needs to happen is people need to be more educated and ask more questions before joining any team or organization; just because it looks good from the outside and everyone is signing D1, doesnt mean squat. Like someone said earlier, how many of those kids are being forced to take a walk-on or minimal scholarship just to keep their leaders rep. I have never had a kid walk-on anywhere and all my kids have received scholarships ranging from 50-100% and the average is around 80%; only have had 1 50%, 1 65%, maybe 3 or 4 70% and all the rest were 80+.

Personally, I never intended to have an organization with anything other then 1 Gold team, but after setting up the structure for the Gold team and being successful at it, many younger parents and players approached me begging me to start a team for their age group. So, added a 16A team first and then a 14A team. However, after all the changes with ASA, we now have (1) Gold Team, (NO) 16A Team and (2) 14A Teams for 2010; both 14A teams only have 11 & 12 rostered with 3 pitchers ea so everyone gets alot of playing time. After we moved up the talent that was ready for Gold from the 16s, that left 6 players, we put the ones who were age eligible to play 14s on the second 14A team and then helped a few remaining find a 16A team that would fit their best interest. I could have just stuck those remaining kids on the Gold Roster up to 20, but that wouldn't have been in their best interest in my opinion.

[honcho55]

Jeff....great idea on the Sept. 1 of the soph. year! Again I am in no way implying your org. uses the tactics mentioned. The purpose of my mentioning your roster numbers is that 18-20 players on a gold roster is not uncommon, and there is a lot that employ said tactics. Unfortunately, there is a lot of miseducation out there regarding compliance, eligibility, # of scholarships available at each level D1 to JC, etc. A lot of org. don't educate their parents, nor let them know of other options. Why? I think that the TB community needs to do better about opening the lines of communication ACROSS org. lines AND furthermore work together to build softball instead of trying to feed the egos and tearing down softball!

[Fusion Gold]

This is a great discussion; everyone has some great idea’s and opinions. I think when it’s all said and done the parents need to spend more time educating themselves on the recruiting process. Use the organization that you play for as a tool to help you achieve your goals, not the other way around.

My philosophy is old school, no pun intended Kevin. But I think if the parents would take the time to put a simple checklist together, develop a road map or a gameplan and use that to attain what best fits your daughter, then the team that she plays on will serve you the best based on the level of coaching and development that they provide. If you are in an organization that has coaches, that teach the game and develop players, the college coaches see that, trust me, they see it and they are starving to find more of it. People get fooled into believing that it’s all about who knows who, and all that crap. Yes it helps to have established relationships with college coaches, that helps get kids recognized, but that is one small piece of the puzzle. And if the college coaches don’t respect you as a coach, then your credibility will become tarnished. Then what?

If your daughter makes good grades, has athletic ability, scores well on her tests (and takes them early, by the end of the sophomore year), plays for a team that has goals and expectations, and plays for a team or organization that teaches the game, develops talent, and puts an emphasis on being the best that they can be. You will get recruited, and you will be happy with the decision that you and your daughter make. If you are on a team that you think is going to get you recruited, you will either end up with nothing or more likely will end up going somewhere that you really don’t want to go, and you will never graduate…

There is more than one way to go about this. This philosophy works well for us and our kids, I hope that we can continue to show people, that there is another approach that does work. If you take on the challenge and come from a hard working, blue collar family, you can live the dream and make it happen.

[amazing]

Tulsa Elite and the author of this post,

No offense to you guys, but "16u a dying class", is wishful thinking on your part. You probably do not have a 16u team in your organization, so in my opinion, you are biased. 16u is very important to lots of people, including a multitude of college coaches.
16u is not dying, neither is 18u.
We have got to stop trying to get kids on our teams based on fear of missing out on something.
We encourage kids to doubt their status, think of themselves only, and to walk out on a team where everything is perfectly good for them at the present.
Our 16u team has found wonderful competition at this level, and the college exposure has been better than our wildest dreams.

This in no way implies that I am wishing 16U is going to die out. I am simply looking for some intelligent dialogue on the subject. I sincerely appreciate the discussion that is taking place here. Especially from the Elite and Fusion organizations which I have a tremendous amount of respect for. It will help me plan our teams and players future in a more thoughtful way. Thank you to all who have chimed in. Great discussion!!!

[Greg Raley]

I see that there are several coaches in this interesting conversation. I have lots of respect for other coaches in travel ball. I appreciate what you go through.
Now here are the issues, as I see it.
Some of you have "Gold" teams, with an organization of younger teams below. You graduate certain younger players who you consider, "ready for Gold". I call this system, The "Farm System", like pro baseball.
Other coaches have organizations that promote teams. When the team is ready, the entire team moves up to the next age bracket. The organization is there to provide structure and direction for the teams. I will call this system, The "Team System". I strongly favor the Team System.

Farm System vs. Team System
1. The Team System incubates and graduates teams, and teaches the players to be unselfish "team players".
The Farm System pulls young players from younger teams within the organization, thus promoting "me first" players.

2. The Team System sees all age brackets as equally important.
The Farm System teaches, or leaves the impression, that the oldest team, usually 18u, is the most important.

3. In the Team System, the more talented players are expected to provide humble leadership.
The talented players in a Farm System are expected to be gone before to long. This demoralizes the younger team.

4. A Team Player is glad to get her college recruiting out of the way, so she can focus on helping her team compete.
Many times, when a Farm System player gets her college scholarship, she is "done".

The Texas Storm Elite organization has four teams, two 12u, one 14u, and one 16u.

The Texas Storm Elite is an ASA, 16u fast pitch softball team. We aspire to be a true team, not just a group. We believe that a true 16u team is not just a “farm system” for the 18u age bracket, or an age just to rush through. We believe that we have to build a true team, with a winning tradition. Build success then take it with you. A true team is made up of true team players who selflessly apply their talent, in whatever role that benefits the whole. True team players have a strong commitment to the other players, and to the mission of the team.