IFA/VTD...Coaches need to read between the lines

[Battle]

The first line of your response shows how ridiculous your whole argument is. Are you honestly saying that people that spend a lot of money for something and are not happy are not going to say so? If you bought a car that was a lemon would you tell everyone it was great and you loved it? Funny there were plenty of people that spent thousands running all over the country playing ASA and you sure heard their opinions.
Also if you spent your time playing usfa you were never interested in playing the best copetition anyway so you probably wouldn't understand that mindset.

Check the dates of the events before you spout off. As usual, your mouth is in gear with your brain out of gear.

[PDad]

You must be comparing driving to ASA (e.g. Midland or OKC) versus flying to SoCal. There is no way that happens this year with 16U in NorCal and 18G in Florida.

All the TX and OK folks I met the last 2 years were extremely happy they weren't in Midland or Montgomery.

Of course they are going to say that. You don't spend that kind of money and say otherwise. Besides, how many TX and OK folks have you met and had this discussion? It's probably more than me... It was at least a dozen. Maybe that is more than you. Of course, you didn't mention whether they were satisfied with their expenditure.

Before the PGFers took their ball and went home kicking a can, (Oh please... ) I thought ASA should hold more Nationals closer to Cali but now I think it's a mistake. They should let that be PGF land and let it be. I have no problem with that and ASA shouldn't either.
Of course you don't have a problem with that - it greatly increases the chances of TX teams winning. ASA does have a problem with that - they'd have to change all their stationery to read "ASA of non-PGF America."

People will get tired of traveling to one spot every year. When my kid was young, we would go to Florida every year for USFA WS. It was great the first time, pretty good the second time and then it just got old. We had a great time everytime we went. Bobby always did a great job with it.
At least that was Florida. Imagine how the longtime 18G coaches felt going to OKC every Summer...

PGFers want to see the dimise of ASA so bad that they will do or say anything. (You've just become overly sensitive.) So bad that when some of you list sanctions in order, ASA is toward the bottom of the list. I have to laugh everytime I see it because it is so ridiculous. What else would they rank between PGF and ASA - TCS? Don't let the crazies get to you.

Like it or not, ASA is still a top event and there's really nothing that you or anyone else can do about it. There will be a lot of college coaches and there will be a lot of kids recruited from that event. PGF or not.
I agree, especially with PGF moving 14U and 16U up a week. This is the first year of placing an ASA/USA Nats out here and it will be interesting to see the impact of it.

I wonder if there are any talks about ASA giving a free (as in $$$) pass to the top teams from last year ASA Nationals? Hmmm...

Nice try at changing the subject. I'll take your lack of response to the "twice the cost" topic as admission that you were doing a misleading apples-to-oranges comparison.

[Battle]

Dates are irrelevant. We played ASA every year and never thought to bother with any of the other alphabets since the goal was to play and beat the best, not go on vacation with some softball thrown in.

You made it relevant with the last part of your di-a-tribe.

Back to the money topic are you saying it ischeaper to go to FL from TX than it is to go to CA?

To Panama? Yes

[Battle]

You must be comparing driving to ASA (e.g. Midland or OKC) versus flying to SoCal. There is no way that happens this year with 16U in NorCal and 18G in Florida.

All the TX and OK folks I met the last 2 years were extremely happy they weren't in Midland or Montgomery.

Of course they are going to say that. You don't spend that kind of money and say otherwise. Besides, how many TX and OK folks have you met and had this discussion? It's probably more than me... It was at least a dozen. Maybe that is more than you. Of course, you didn't mention whether they were satisfied with their expenditure.
More than me? You're probably right. They liked it OK.
Before the PGFers took their ball and went home kicking a can, (Oh please... ) Lol...You say that as if it's not true. C'mon!
I thought ASA should hold more Nationals closer to Cali but now I think it's a mistake. They should let that be PGF land and let it be. I have no problem with that and ASA shouldn't either.
Of course you don't have a problem with that - it greatly increases the chances of TX teams winning. ASA does have a problem with that - they'd have to change all their stationery to read "ASA of non-PGF America."
It has nothing to do with Texas teams and more to do with ASA

People will get tired of traveling to one spot every year. When my kid was young, we would go to Florida every year for USFA WS. It was great the first time, pretty good the second time and then it just got old. We had a great time everytime we went. Bobby always did a great job with it.
At least that was Florida. Imagine how the longtime 18G coaches felt going to OKC every Summer...
Yeah right. As I said before, you might want to rethink the NCAA thing if OKC was such a disservice.

PGFers want to see the dimise of ASA so bad that they will do or say anything. (You've just become overly sensitive.) Again, you say that as if it's not true.
So bad that when some of you list sanctions in order, ASA is toward the bottom of the list. I have to laugh everytime I see it because it is so ridiculous. What else would they rank between PGF and ASA - TCS? Don't let the crazies get to you.

Like it or not, ASA is still a top event and there's really nothing that you or anyone else can do about it. There will be a lot of college coaches and there will be a lot of kids recruited from that event. PGF or not.
I agree, especially with PGF moving 14U and 16U up a week. This is the first year of placing an ASA/USA Nats out here and it will be interesting to see the impact of it.I don't think it's the 1st time nor the 2nd. You might want to re-check that statement

I wonder if there are any talks about ASA giving a free (as in $$$) pass to the top teams from last year ASA Nationals? Hmmm...

Nice try at changing the subject. I'll take your lack of response to the "twice the cost" topic as admission that you were doing a misleading apples-to-oranges comparison.

How is that misleading? When I asked Texas, and Oklahoma folks what they spent, it was twice/triple of what we spent. The fact that they flew is no secret. Is it?

[PDad]

Yeah right. As I said before, you might want to rethink the NCAA thing if OKC was such a disservice. That was to Spazsdad and I'll bet he'll gladly go to OKC if his DD's school makes it to the WCWS. NCAA D1 isn't something I need to rethink.

PGFers want to see the dimise of ASA so bad that they will do or say anything. (You've just become overly sensitive.) Again, you say that as if it's not true. Each side has its fervent supporters and they all spin it their way - including you.

Like it or not, ASA is still a top event and there's really nothing that you or anyone else can do about it. There will be a lot of college coaches and there will be a lot of kids recruited from that event. PGF or not. I agree, especially with PGF moving 14U and 16U up a week. This is the first year of placing an ASA/USA Nats out here and it will be interesting to see the impact of it.I don't think it's the 1st time nor the 2nd. You might want to re-check that statement It's the first result of a policy ASA passed a couple years ago of placing at least 1 ASA/USA Nat in each territory. It's also the first ASA/USA Class A event out here since the formation of PGF. There are a lot more TX 16U teams entered in the Houston PGF qualifier this year. It will be interesting to see where the top 16U teams go - ASA, PGF or both.

Nice try at changing the subject. I'll take your lack of response to the "twice the cost" topic as admission that you were doing a misleading apples-to-oranges comparison.

How is that misleading? When I asked Texas, and Oklahoma folks what they spent, it was twice/triple of what we spent. The fact that they flew is no secret. Is it?

It certainly wasn't clear because you didn't disclose where you went. Some people drove to SoCal from OK and Texas. Either you didn't talk to any of them or you conveniently excluded them from your results. So yes, your cost claim is misleading by it's omissions. You also didn't contest my post that ASA doesn't have a cost advantage this year for 16U or 18G.

Cost is just one of the factors that all teams have to consider when setting their goals for the Summer. Teams and families have several options for any given event that will reduce their costs.

[Battle]

Yeah right. As I said before, you might want to rethink the NCAA thing if OKC was such a disservice. That was to Spazsdad and I'll bet he'll gladly go to OKC if his DD's school makes it to the WCWS. NCAA D1 isn't something I need to rethink.
First one was to Spaz and then to you. Although I hope the best for Spaz's kid, it always amazes me how OKC or the "God forsaken places" are the goals once you get to the NCAA.
PGFers want to see the dimise of ASA so bad that they will do or say anything. (You've just become overly sensitive.) Again, you say that as if it's not true. Each side has its fervent supporters and they all spin it their way - including you.

Like it or not, ASA is still a top event and there's really nothing that you or anyone else can do about it. There will be a lot of college coaches and there will be a lot of kids recruited from that event. PGF or not. I agree, especially with PGF moving 14U and 16U up a week. This is the first year of placing an ASA/USA Nats out here and it will be interesting to see the impact of it.I don't think it's the 1st time nor the 2nd. You might want to re-check that statement It's the first result of a policy ASA passed a couple years ago of placing at least 1 ASA/USA Nat in each territory. It's also the first ASA/USA Class A event out here since the formation of PGF. There are a lot more TX 16U teams entered in the Houston PGF qualifier this year. It will be interesting to see where the top 16U teams go - ASA, PGF or both.Agreed. It will be interesting. Teams enter PGF and the HOF qualifiers for the same reasons. Competition and keeping options open. Although they probably know where they will go (or want to go)

Nice try at changing the subject. I'll take your lack of response to the "twice the cost" topic as admission that you were doing a misleading apples-to-oranges comparison.

How is that misleading? When I asked Texas, and Oklahoma folks what they spent, it was twice/triple of what we spent. The fact that they flew is no secret. Is it?

It certainly wasn't clear because you didn't disclose where you went. Some people drove to SoCal from OK and Texas. Either you didn't talk to any of them or you conveniently excluded them from your results. So yes, your cost claim is misleading by it's omissions. You also didn't contest my post that ASA doesn't have a cost advantage this year for 16U or 18G.

Cost is just one of the factors that all teams have to consider when setting their goals for the Summer. Teams and families have several options for any given event that will reduce their costs.

For 16s,I have already said that I think it is a mistake for ASA to hold anything in Cali.
As for 18 gold, it costs about the same to travel from Texas to SoCal and Texas to Clearwater when it comes to airfare. If driving, it cost more to drive through the Southwest than it does to drive through the Southeast, fuel wise. Cali is a longer trip also. Cost of living is higher in Cali than Florida. Housing is extremely higher in Cali than Florida although I don't know if that comes into play.
As for the folks that I've talked to, the people that drove to PGF spent almost twice of what we spent on our trip to Alabama and the people that flew spent almost triple. I hope that clears up any omissions of my post. Now let me ask you this. I notice you posted prices for team fees for ASA in another thread. What are the team fees for 18s at PGF compared to the team fees for 18 Gold for ASA and what do they include?

[PDad]

Yeah right. As I said before, you might want to rethink the NCAA thing if OKC was such a disservice. That was to Spazsdad and I'll bet he'll gladly go to OKC if his DD's school makes it to the WCWS. NCAA D1 isn't something I need to rethink.
First one was to Spaz and then to you. Although I hope the best for Spaz's kid, it always amazes me how OKC or the "God forsaken places" are the goals once you get to the NCAA. You can't see the difference between paying through the nose every year to spend a week at an ASA Nat with 64-160 teams versus the remote chance of getting to watch your kid play in the WCWS with 8 teams? FWIW, you should keep better track of people's stances because you end up alienating people that aren't dyed-in-the-wool 'PGFers' like SpazsDad. Try exercising a little friend/foe discretion before you shoot.

It's the first result of a policy ASA passed a couple years ago of placing at least 1 ASA/USA Nat in each territory. It's also the first ASA/USA Class A event out here since the formation of PGF. There are a lot more TX 16U teams entered in the Houston PGF qualifier this year. It will be interesting to see where the top 16U teams go - ASA, PGF or both. Agreed. It will be interesting. Teams enter PGF and the HOF qualifiers for the same reasons. Competition and keeping options open. Although they probably know where they will go (or want to go) The Houston qualifier isn't a good choice for keeping PGF as an option open. It is June 1-2 and teams earning a berth only have 10 days to submit payment to keep it. HOF is mainly a regional tourney for OK/TX teams.

For 16s,I have already said that I think it is a mistake for ASA to hold anything in Cali. So you think ASA should take their ball and go home kicking a can? It was a long overdue reform that came about because of PGF and has the best chance of crowning an undisputed national champion. Also, there are still lots of teams out here in "PGF land" that want to go to ASA/USA Nats. Why should they always be subjected to bearing the extra travel expense?

As for 18 gold, it costs about the same to travel from Texas to SoCal and Texas to Clearwater when it comes to airfare. If driving, it cost more to drive through the Southwest than it does to drive through the Southeast, fuel wise. Only in CA, at least until Obama imposes our fuel specs on the rest of the country. Cali is a longer trip also. 300 miles ($135) / 3 hours from DFW. Cost of living is higher in Cali than Florida. Housing is extremely higher in Cali than Florida although I don't know if that comes into play. Not much - occupancy and tournament rates have a much bigger effect on room costs. Room rates were always jacked up for ASA Nats because occupancy was sky high and they knew they could get away with it. PGF actually offers discounted rates because there is a lot of competition amongst the hotels. Have you looked at the 18G room rates? There are a number of hotels in the $149-199/nt range.

As for the folks that I've talked to, the people that drove to PGF spent almost twice of what we spent on our trip to Alabama and the people that flew spent almost triple. Funny how you went from double to double/triple - are you stretching the truth? Whatever they are, it's been the other way around for the teams out here with ASA. The cost difference is significant, so it's understandable that everyone wants it AIMBY (always in my back yard). I hope that clears up any omissions of my post. Now let me ask you this. I notice you posted prices for team fees for ASA in another thread. What are the team fees for 18s at PGF compared to the team fees for 18 Gold for ASA and what do they include?

Are you fishing and/or too lazy to do your own legwork? As I said in the other thread, "Entry fees are an insignificant cost compared to travel expenses (e.g. hotel, air/car), so events that are local for a team always have a cost advantage."

As far as I know, the cost of PGF 18s is $1,700 per the OP in the other thread. PGF includes free parking, free entry (no gate fee) and you can bring in your cooler loaded with food and beverages. ASA 18G is $1,200 this year and also includes free parking and entry (no gate fee). They are not allowing outside food or beverages, so concessions will quickly eat up the price difference.

Now I have a surprise for you. If Nationals are to determine the best team in the country, how is it fair for any sanction to always require the same half of the top 25 teams in the country to bear the additional cost of trekking to the other half? It wasn't for ASA and it isn't for PGF. ASA has made commendable changes of rotating 18G Nats and spreading Class A across the territories. I'd like to see PGF start holding some of their age groups across the country. Chicago and New Jersey are the most obvious sites based on capable board members being located there. An obstacle in the past was PGF would lose the fields in SoCal if they didn't use them one year. I think the age groups and regionals they've added would allow them to keep their hold on the fields.

[Battle]

First one was to Spaz and then to you. Although I hope the best for Spaz's kid, it always amazes me how OKC or the "God forsaken places" are the goals once you get to the NCAA. You can't see the difference between paying through the nose every year to spend a week at an ASA Nat with 64-160 teams versus the remote chance of getting to watch your kid play in the WCWS with 8 teams? FWIW, you should keep better track of people's stances because you end up alienating people that aren't dyed-in-the-wool 'PGFers' like SpazsDad. Try exercising a little friend/foe discretion before you shoot.No disrespect intended to Spaz and I think he knows that. Nor any to you. You have no idea how long I've known his stance. Now who's being sensitive?

It's the first result of a policy ASA passed a couple years ago of placing at least 1 ASA/USA Nat in each territory. It's also the first ASA/USA Class A event out here since the formation of PGF.. By the way, thanks for clearing that up because at first it looked like you was saying something else. Agreed. It will be interesting. Teams enter PGF and the HOF qualifiers for the same reasons. Competition and keeping options open. Although they probably know where they will go (or want to go) The Houston qualifier isn't a good choice for keeping PGF as an option open. It is June 1-2 and teams earning a berth only have 10 days to submit payment to keep it. HOF is mainly a regional tourney for OK/TX teams. That regional tourney 4th place finisher finished 2nd at PGF 2 years ago. Remember?...

For 16s,I have already said that I think it is a mistake for ASA to hold anything in Cali. So you think ASA should take their ball and go home kicking a can? It was a long overdue reform that came about because of PGF Wrong. It was on the table before PGF as you know it. Quit being so conceited.

As for 18 gold, it costs about the same to travel from Texas to SoCal and Texas to Clearwater when it comes to airfare. If driving, it cost more to drive through the Southwest than it does to drive through the Southeast, fuel wise. Only in CA.No. Across the country East vs West,

Have you looked at the 18G room rates? There are a number of hotels in the $149-199/nt range....and a lot that's cheaper. Misleading is not your strong point.

As for the folks that I've talked to, the people that drove to PGF spent almost twice of what we spent on our trip to Alabama and the people that flew spent almost triple. Funny how you went from double to double/triple - are you stretching the truth? Whatever they are, it's been the other way around for the teams out here with ASA. The cost difference is significant, so it's understandable that everyone wants it AIMBY (always in my back yard).I was giving you the benefit of the doubt to the low end.

Are you fishing and/or too lazy to do your own legwork? As I said in the other thread, "Entry fees are an insignificant cost compared to travel expenses (e.g. hotel, air/car), so events that are local for a team always have a cost advantage."

As far as I know, the cost of PGF 18s is $1,700 per the OP in the other thread. PGF includes free parking, free entry (no gate fee) and you can bring in your cooler loaded with food and beverages. ASA 18G is $1,200 this year and also includes free parking and entry (no gate fee). They are not allowing outside food or beverages, so concessions will quickly eat up the price difference. Why would you want to take food in? You can leave when you want and get some real food. C'mon that argument is ridiculous and always has been.

Now I have a surprise for you. If Nationals are to determine the best team in the country, how is it fair for any sanction to always require the same half of the top 25 teams in the country to bear the additional cost of trekking to the other half? It wasn't for ASA and it isn't for PGF. ASA has made commendable changes of rotating 18G Nats and spreading Class A across the territories. I'd like to see PGF start holding some of their age groups across the country. Chicago and New Jersey are the most obvious sites based on capable board members being located there. An obstacle in the past was PGF would lose the fields in SoCal if they didn't use them one year. I think the age groups and regionals they've added would allow them to keep their hold on the fields.

They had better keep the hold on the fields and stay where they are. ASA approves this message.

[PDad]

... HOF is mainly a regional tourney for OK/TX teams. That regional tourney 4th place finisher finished 2nd at PGF 2 years ago. Remember?... Glory obviously played better in SoCal than OKC - as do many teams. Do you remember the 5th and 7th place finishers at PGF 16U finished 9th at 18G the week before? Glory might have won 18G if they played there.

For 16s,I have already said that I think it is a mistake for ASA to hold anything in Cali. So you think ASA should take their ball and go home kicking a can? It was a long overdue reform that came about because of PGF Wrong. It was on the table before PGF as you know it. Quit being so conceited. I only know they passed it late 2010 for 2011. Prove it was in the works before PGF. If so, under the table is more like it when it comes to ASA awarding Nats.

As far as I know, the cost of PGF 18s is $1,700 per the OP in the other thread. PGF includes free parking, free entry (no gate fee) and you can bring in your cooler loaded with food and beverages. ASA 18G is $1,200 this year and also includes free parking and entry (no gate fee). They are not allowing outside food or beverages, so concessions will quickly eat up the price difference. Why would you want to take food in? You can leave when you want and get some real food. C'mon that argument is rediculous and always has been. Just the typical water, drinks, fruit and snacks that people like to bring in is enough.

Now I have a surprise for you. If Nationals are to determine the best team in the country, how is it fair for any sanction to always require the same half of the top 25 teams in the country to bear the additional cost of trekking to the other half? It wasn't for ASA and it isn't for PGF. ASA has made commendable changes of rotating 18G Nats and spreading Class A across the territories. I'd like to see PGF start holding some of their age groups across the country. Chicago and New Jersey are the most obvious sites based on capable board members being located there. An obstacle in the past was PGF would lose the fields in SoCal if they didn't use them one year. I think the age groups and regionals they've added would allow them to keep their hold on the fields.

They had better keep the hold on the fields and stay where they are. ASA approves this message.

Don't be ridiculous - we know your message wasn't approved. ASA doesn't do anything that quickly. Will ASA still allow teams from Texas after y'all secede?

[Vess Express]

Will ASA still allow teams from Texas after y'all secede?

They should. Who wouldn't love to be an ASA International Champion?!