Vote to Legalize Pot in California???

[wadeintothem]

Legalization of all drugs, i'm not even with that.

Presumably because you prefer a) spending hundreds of billions on efforts that prevent almost nobody over the age of seven from getting whatever kinds of drugs they want, b) incentivizing gangs and violent criminality, c) funneling huge amounts of money to cartels, terrorists, and corrupt 3rd-world regimes, d) guaranteeing the prevalence of uncontrolled and unsafe drugs, e) promoting the home cooking of cheaper but completely awful drug derivatives (like crack, meth, etc.), and f) condemning countless young people to prison and dead-end lives pursuing the illusory glamor of the drug industry.

Short answer, yes I do. I may have different experiences with tweekers, etc than you though... especially since I deal with them daily.

I happen to think CA's progressive method of treatment/2nd/3rd/4th chances/then finally incarceration is actually a pretty good system.

I do not look at the "war on drugs" as a win/loss type deal. I dont think anyone has the anticipation of "curing" drugs from society. Certainly legalization would not do that either... and IMO, Meth heads need to be criminalized, it gives them a bottom to hit which encourages treatment.

That doesnt mean i put the potheads in the same class, because they are not. There is a difference.

Of course, it very well could be, that just as the pot heads faked medical marijuana as the pathway to legal pot that they could be using it, as you say, as a pathway to full legalization of all drugs. I doubt society would be that stupid, but you never know.

[Skarp]

I doubt society would be that stupid, but you never know.

Other than offering up criminality as a fairly teuous treatment incentive, you haven't said anything that explains why that would be stupid, or why the massive costs currently incurred by society justify the marginal benefit you identify.

[wadeintothem]

I've typed out a few responses.. and then deleted.. hell a lot of my reasons I know their names LOL...

But its just a tired battle vs the same old hat legalization talking points everyones heard "legalize it and treat" them blah blah (I can assure you they do not want/have will power for "treatment" until they are in an orange jump suit and shackles and facing real time and loss of everything).. and the debate really pointless.

On the ballot will be legalizing marijuana, not the hard drugs.. Well save the legalize the crank movement for another day I suppose. I'll be voting yes on legalizing it (this is a change, because I voted no on medical marijuana). As I've worked with the situation, I do happen to have learned a lot about Prop 215 and the Medical Marijuana /illegal marijuana and the laws regarding such as I've been involved with it over the years, so I guess if you want to ask/debate something about that, it would be more appropriate to this thread.

[wadeintothem]

I hope that the whole softball world knows ...

if you thought it was hard to get So Cal people to want to leave their area for a national now, wait until this passes. No ones leaving so cal. Ever.

[artomatic]

I hope that the whole softball world knows ...

if you thought it was hard to get So Cal people to want to leave their area for a national now, wait until this passes. No ones leaving so cal. Ever.

I can see it now....
"All I need are some cool waves, tasty buds, the premier national tournament, and I'm fine..."

[access2]

How 'bout legalizing brothels while we're at it?

[Skarp]

I've typed out a few responses.. and then deleted.. hell a lot of my reasons I know their names LOL...

But its just a tired battle vs the same old hat legalization talking points everyones heard "legalize it and treat" them blah blah (I can assure you they do not want/have will power for "treatment" until they are in an orange jump suit and shackles and facing real time and loss of everything).. and the debate really pointless.

On the ballot will be legalizing marijuana, not the hard drugs.. Well save the legalize the crank movement for another day I suppose. I'll be voting yes on legalizing it (this is a change, because I voted no on medical marijuana). As I've worked with the situation, I do happen to have learned a lot about Prop 215 and the Medical Marijuana /illegal marijuana and the laws regarding such as I've been involved with it over the years, so I guess if you want to ask/debate something about that, it would be more appropriate to this thread.

I guess I should amend my position a little. I'm not for legalizing everything. Meth, crank, crack, etc...are all awful, life-destroying drugs whose deleterious effects are caused in large part not by the the psychoactive components of the drugs themselves, but rather by the chemical bases in which the drugs are delivered. And people turn to those drugs because they are cheaper and easier to acquire than their less harmful brethren. So I would legalize cocaine, heroin, speed, etc., and keep illegal (and thus more expensive and harder to acquire) their more destructive derivatives.

The bottom line is that, under the current regime, anyone who wants drugs can get them. Will use increase with legalization? Certainly. But likely only at the margins, and the same strategies which have been employed to curtail smoking could be effective with respect to drugs too (at least for those who aren't already willing to break the law in order to get high). For the rest, you treat them, and if they turn to real crime you incarcerate them...and the good news is that you would then have plenty of money for both. Meanwhile you've dealt a serious blow to gangs and terrorists and law enforcement unions.

[SoCalASABlue]

My ex-roomie lived in the Netherlands for three years, where you can basically walk into the local drug store and buy pot over the counter. The local petty crimes got to the point where nobody repaired their broken car windows, replaced their car stereos, etc. since as soon as they were fixed, the cycle would start all over again. So if that is the lowest impact of legalizing pot in California, maybe even my native Californian wife will finally realize we need to move. The weather here is already expensive enough without facilitating yet another generation of slackers.

And to think that gangs and organized crime are somehow going to lessen their activities if pot is legalized is just naive. There will still be a black market of tax-free dope, just as there is now.

It is also extremely naive to believe the State government is going to somehow spend this new pot tax revenue in a way that benefits us. They're not fiscally (and sometimes not socially either) responsible now - how is giving them more money going to change that behavior for the benefit of the majority?

Sorry - but we need to learn from Winston Churchill (paraphrasing) the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

[Skarp]

My ex-roomie lived in the Netherlands for three years, where you can basically walk into the local drug store and buy pot over the counter. The local petty crimes got to the point where nobody repaired their broken car windows, replaced their car stereos, etc. since as soon as they were fixed, the cycle would start all over again. So if that is the lowest impact of legalizing pot in California, maybe even my native Californian wife will finally realize we need to move. The weather here is already expensive enough without facilitating yet another generation of slackers.

So potheads who have to buy expensive, illegal pot (and who break the law to do so) are socially responsible, but if it was cheaper and legal they would suddenly turn to crime to support their habits. Got it.

And your point re risking hard time to save on sales tax makes perfect sense. The huge illegal moonshine industry is a testament to that. Oh wait...

The reason illegal drugs are expensive is that there are big risks and costs associated with delivering them to the end users, and people up and down the delivery chain have to be compensated for those risks and costs. There is no way that criminals could compete with a legal drug market. Period.

[Nzane]

Ok,well,I've smoked pot MAYBE 15x in my lifetime. I can't stand ANY kind of smoke. But, I've known people who do smoke it. My question is,why is alcohol legal, and pot not? People that are stoned out of their minds are more coherent that stumbling drunks....justa thought