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Letter from the boss

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by Skarp » Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:25 pm

weekend4trvl wrote:What he failed to mention is that 2900 of those jobs were in Nicaragua and paid 17 cents an hour. My guess is the only employees that ever made a living wage were the sales people. Rolling cigars in a sweat shop pays just over minimum wage. If there is a market for cigars someone will provide them.So if he closes his doors...no problem. The central American tobacco industry does not has a very good pension plan...does it.

Well, I can comfortably conclude that you aren't an economist. The concept of "market" makes no sense when completely divorced from price. There may be a huge market for a product at a certain price, but a much smaller or non-existent market for that same product at a marginally higher price.

So in the face of rising costs (e.g., those caused by higher taxes), a business has limited choices. It can pass the costs on in product price, causing an erosion in purchase volume. It can eat the costs in the form of lower business profits. It can lower its own costs by, for instance, laying off workers. Or it can do some combination of the above. But when costs increase beyond a certain point it becomes impossible to operate at a level of anticipated profit that makes remotely good business sense. And if it closes its doors, it is unreasonable to expect anyone else to come in and fill the void, because they will face the same risk/reward calculus as did the original business (which actually had an advantage in that it was already a going concern).

As far as Central American wages and pension plans, I'm not sure what those have to do with anything this discussion is about, but perhaps you could, for my edification, tell me how much Nicaraguan tobacco workers are supposed to make.
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by jofus » Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:57 pm

weekend4trvl wrote:
Stubs wrote:
weekend4trvl wrote:Who translated the letter into English. Sound like he made his fortune in the US, but at the end of his career he's not willing to give something back to the community. I'd say enjoy the beaches of Nicaragua.


Did you miss the part about this guy supplying jobs for 3,000 people????? That's not giving back to the community??? THAT'S THE BEST WAY TO GIVE BACK TO THE COMMUNITY, BY CREATING A PRODUCT OR SUPPLYING SERVICE THROUGH EMPLOYING THE COMMUNITY, NOT THROUGH FREE HANDOUTS! Of course the way your "us" thinks, it's not good enough until you bleed us (the responsible us) dry.

What he failed to mention is that 2900 of those jobs were in Nicaragua and paid 17 cents an hour. My guess is the only employees that ever made a living wage were the sales people. Rolling cigars in a sweat shop pays just over minimum wage. If there is a market for cigars someone will provide them.So if he closes his doors...no problem. The central American tobacco industry does not has a very good pension plan...does it.


If you think this is just about a single cigar company, you're more clueless than I thought :shock:
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by weekend4trvl » Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:33 pm

Skarp wrote:
weekend4trvl wrote:What he failed to mention is that 2900 of those jobs were in Nicaragua and paid 17 cents an hour. My guess is the only employees that ever made a living wage were the sales people. Rolling cigars in a sweat shop pays just over minimum wage. If there is a market for cigars someone will provide them.So if he closes his doors...no problem. The central American tobacco industry does not has a very good pension plan...does it.

Well, I can comfortably conclude that you aren't an economist. The concept of "market" makes no sense when completely divorced from price. There may be a huge market for a product at a certain price, but a much smaller or non-existent market for that same product at a marginally higher price.

So in the face of rising costs (e.g., those caused by higher taxes), a business has limited choices. It can pass the costs on in product price, causing an erosion in purchase volume. It can eat the costs in the form of lower business profits. It can lower its own costs by, for instance, laying off workers. Or it can do some combination of the above. But when costs nincrease beyond a certain point it becomes impossible to operate at a level of anticipated profit that makes remotely good business sense. And if it closes its doors, it is unreasonable to expect anyone else to come in and fill the void, because they will face the same risk/reward calculus as did the original business (which actually had an advantage in that it was already a going concern).

As far as Central American wages and pension plans, I'm not sure what those have to do with anything this discussion is about, but perhaps you could, for my edification, tell me how much Nicaraguan tobacco workers are supposed to make.

Not an economist , but a realist. Our capitalist based ecomony is collapling onto it'self. Without massive government intervention we could see 20-25% unemployment by this time next year. The discussion we are having is about how to pay for this government intervention(higher taxes) which puts a strain on business...I enjoy reading your point of view on this subject , but remember you are a small but vocal minority.
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by GSB » Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:29 pm

[/quote]Not an economist , but a realist. Our capitalist based ecomony is collapling onto it'self. Without massive government intervention we could see 20-25% unemployment by this time next year. The discussion we are having is about how to pay for this government intervention(higher taxes) which puts a strain on business...I enjoy reading your point of view on this subject , but remember you are a small but vocal minority.[/quote]

That is got to be the funniest thing I have ever heard. I can see you are the type to stir the pot and sit back and watch.
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by weekend4trvl » Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:06 pm

I'm an employee not an employer.Instead of making cigars for $8 bucks an hour.I'd rather have the government pay me $50 per hour to replair an old bridge. Then I can pay some taxes.

I think we are in the same friendly this weekend. You can't miss me I'm the one wearing the Al Frankin tee shirt.
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by GIMNEPIWO » Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:39 pm

er uh ..hate to be the one to point out the obvious ... but you people are talking about this letter as if it is real not some sort of internet who-hah... # 1 states "This was sent to me " ... JFC ! I get alot of crapola 'sent to me' ... So, your saying this Cigar guy is sending a threatening letter to his employees based on 'what might happen' or 'what is happening' ... give me a buckin freak ! ... If that BS is real I'll give up drinkin' .... :o

Also interesting if Nicky boy was that passionate in his views and willing to make this letter public, why this letter is not under the heading of Press Releases on thier web-site ... PT Barnum was right ...
Last edited by GIMNEPIWO on Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by Skarp » Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:43 pm

GIMNEPIWO wrote:er uh ..hate to be the one to point out the obvious ... but you people are talking about this letter as if it is real not some sort of internet who-hah... # 1 states "This was sent to me " ... JFC ! I get alot of crapola 'sent to me' ... So, your saying this Cigar guy is sending a threatening letter to his employees based on 'what might happen' or 'what is happening' ... give me a buckin freak ! ... If that BS is real I'll give up drinkin' .... :o

Whether it's real or not is irrelevant, as even if it is real it's merely anecdotal. Of importance are the issues that it raises.
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by Stubs » Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:00 pm

GIMNEPIWO wrote:er uh ..hate to be the one to point out the obvious ... but you people are talking about this letter as if it is real not some sort of internet who-hah... # 1 states "This was sent to me " ... JFC ! I get alot of crapola 'sent to me' ... So, your saying this Cigar guy is sending a threatening letter to his employees based on 'what might happen' or 'what is happening' ... give me a buckin freak ! ... If that BS is real I'll give up drinkin' .... :o

Also interesting if Nicky boy was that passionate in his views and willing to make this letter public, why this letter is not under the heading of Press Releases on thier web-site ... PT Barnum was right ...


Just to let you know, this guy and his company do exist. And here is another of his letters concerning legislation. http://www.cigaradvisor.com/news.cfm?id=472
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by Stubs » Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:04 pm

weekend4trvl wrote:I'm an employee not an employer.Instead of making cigars for $8 bucks an hour.I'd rather have the government pay me $50 per hour to replair an old bridge. Then I can pay some taxes.

I think we are in the same friendly this weekend. You can't miss me I'm the one wearing the Al Frankin tee shirt.


Ooh! There's a big boost towards credibility :lol:
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by GSB » Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:07 pm

Skarp wrote:
GIMNEPIWO wrote:er uh ..hate to be the one to point out the obvious ... but you people are talking about this letter as if it is real not some sort of internet who-hah... # 1 states "This was sent to me " ... JFC ! I get alot of crapola 'sent to me' ... So, your saying this Cigar guy is sending a threatening letter to his employees based on 'what might happen' or 'what is happening' ... give me a buckin freak ! ... If that BS is real I'll give up drinkin' .... :o

Whether it's real or not is irrelevant, as even if it is real it's merely anecdotal. Of importance are the issues that it raises.


Ditto, this is obviously not a real letter. The issues are real issues and mindset it projects is exactly the reason the republicans will take back the power in 3 years and 11 months. I just hope this country still resembles America then.
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