South Carolina to Lower Confederate Flag

[as the world turns]

Why ban the flag after 150 years? Oh I forgot, the piece of cloth killed 9 people. Since a muslim killed 4 marines and a Sailor, can we ban all things muslim?

Weak analogy

It has not been 150 years- the Confederate Battle flag started reappearing in the late 50's/early 60's as a protest against desegregation South Carolina is one of the last states to move it from the State House-they did not ban it, just felt that it did not have a place over a governemnt building. The latest incident in Charleston just provided political cover for the legislature to do what should have been done decades ago.It represents an important part of our history and it's legacy needs to be taught, but it is frankly offensive IMO for a State Government to use it as one of its symbols.

This is a great chance for the Republican party to jump on this issue and show that they have been on the "right" side of this throughout history. Historically the Confederate Flag is a legacy of the Democratic party, slavery as well. Abolishism was a Republican cause and was one the root issues that helped form the party

My point was that it has been 150 years since the Civil War, not the flying of the flag. Yeah it's a ban, a progressive ban. Progressives have been going around tearing down the Confederate flag on private property every chance they get - and they get away with it. The PC police has banned it.
No, it's not a weak analogy.
Charleston incident - white people bad.
Chattanooga incident - lone wolf bad, islam not to blame.

What I saw in Charleston was White and Blacks standing and praying hand in hand, condemning a violent act against their fellow citizens. I saw a congregation being true Christians and forgiving the killer. I saw a Republican Govenor call for that flag to come down because it no longer reresents the citizens of South Carolina. I saw a decendant of jefferson Davis call for it to come down I saw the legislature debate and then vote to take it down. I saw the flag come down in a respectful ceremony.

In Chattanooga I saw a terrible act. I have seen Radical Islam and Isis. I saw the Muslim community in many US cities ondemn the act. I saw the family of the killer apologize for the act. Not sure what you saw??


Frankly in IMO the leaders of the Confederacy were traitors- they started an armed rebellion that cost this country more lives than all of its other wars combined and tried to perpetuate an antiquated and cruel labor system. The battle flag has its place in history, but certainly not over public buildings

Is there slavery in the world today, you bet, and a lot of it. Mostly in Islamic countries. And no one seems to care.

[jonriv]

Why ban the flag after 150 years? Oh I forgot, the piece of cloth killed 9 people. Since a muslim killed 4 marines and a Sailor, can we ban all things muslim?

Weak analogy

It has not been 150 years- the Confederate Battle flag started reappearing in the late 50's/early 60's as a protest against desegregation South Carolina is one of the last states to move it from the State House-they did not ban it, just felt that it did not have a place over a governemnt building. The latest incident in Charleston just provided political cover for the legislature to do what should have been done decades ago.It represents an important part of our history and it's legacy needs to be taught, but it is frankly offensive IMO for a State Government to use it as one of its symbols.

This is a great chance for the Republican party to jump on this issue and show that they have been on the "right" side of this throughout history. Historically the Confederate Flag is a legacy of the Democratic party, slavery as well. Abolishism was a Republican cause and was one the root issues that helped form the party

My point was that it has been 150 years since the Civil War, not the flying of the flag. Yeah it's a ban, a progressive ban. Progressives have been going around tearing down the Confederate flag on private property every chance they get - and they get away with it. The PC police has banned it.
No, it's not a weak analogy.
Charleston incident - white people bad.
Chattanooga incident - lone wolf bad, islam not to blame.

What I saw in Charleston was White and Blacks standing and praying hand in hand, condemning a violent act against their fellow citizens. I saw a congregation being true Christians and forgiving the killer. I saw a Republican Govenor call for that flag to come down because it no longer reresents the citizens of South Carolina. I saw a decendant of jefferson Davis call for it to come down I saw the legislature debate and then vote to take it down. I saw the flag come down in a respectful ceremony.

In Chattanooga I saw a terrible act. I have seen Radical Islam and Isis. I saw the Muslim community in many US cities ondemn the act. I saw the family of the killer apologize for the act. Not sure what you saw??


Frankly in IMO the leaders of the Confederacy were traitors- they started an armed rebellion that cost this country more lives than all of its other wars combined and tried to perpetuate an antiquated and cruel labor system. The battle flag has its place in history, but certainly not over public buildings

Is there slavery in the world today, you bet, and a lot of it. Mostly in Islamic countries. And no one seems to care.

Mostly in sub-saharan Africa- but what does that have to do with America, its history, and the confederacy

[fastpitchdad05]

[quote="fastpitchdad05"
I gotta ask...why does it matter who is at fault between the two parties? /quote]

....it's because the "alphabet" networks (ABC, NBC, CBS, aka "lamestream media") represent the liberal democrat's agenda. If the media was truly the Fourth Branch if would be honest and non-partisan - it would have vetted our current president instead of outward campaigning for him - it would have presented the ENTIRE history of slavery in a different light and how the flag came to be and who wanted it down (not just now but back in the 1970's another Rebuplican tried to take it down.) The current media is a shill for the Democratic Party. Why do you think Fox News is so popular? It gives independents and traditional American values a fair shake on issues...something the "alphabets" do not do anymore.

Therefore, because of the current dishonest media, it does matter HOW this flag came down and WHO did it. It does matter when Americans are only given information/news when it's propaganda for the Democratic Party.

I'm sorry I just don't see this as important in the grand scheme. Just sounds like more 'Pub vs Dem rhetoric.

Pale Rider made an excellent point in an earlier post about how all this attention is making the Confederate flag more popular than ever. This seems important because although I agree that the flag doesn't belong flying at a state capitol, I also think that this subject has been over-hyped by the media and the impact of removing it has been overstated.

Still the right thing to do, but all the over-the-top complaining is counter-productive IMO. But people like to argue with each other. Especially the ones not happy with their lives. They need someone to point a finger at.

[as the world turns]

[quote="fastpitchdad05"
I gotta ask...why does it matter who is at fault between the two parties? /quote]

....it's because the "alphabet" networks (ABC, NBC, CBS, aka "lamestream media") represent the liberal democrat's agenda. If the media was truly the Fourth Branch if would be honest and non-partisan - it would have vetted our current president instead of outward campaigning for him - it would have presented the ENTIRE history of slavery in a different light and how the flag came to be and who wanted it down (not just now but back in the 1970's another Rebuplican tried to take it down.) The current media is a shill for the Democratic Party. Why do you think Fox News is so popular? It gives independents and traditional American values a fair shake on issues...something the "alphabets" do not do anymore.

Therefore, because of the current dishonest media, it does matter HOW this flag came down and WHO did it. It does matter when Americans are only given information/news when it's propaganda for the Democratic Party.

I'm sorry I just don't see this as important in the grand scheme. Just sounds like more 'Pub vs Dem rhetoric.

Pale Rider made an excellent point in an earlier post about how all this attention is making the Confederate flag more popular than ever. This seems important because although I agree that the flag doesn't belong flying at a state capitol, I also think that this subject has been over-hyped by the media and the impact of removing it has been overstated.

Still the right thing to do, but all the over-the-top complaining is counter-productive IMO. But people like to argue with each other. Especially the ones not happy with their lives. They need someone to point a finger at.

No pickles and lightly toasted bun today.......pleeeeasse

[Hurricane]

Whoa there! I'm not saying the flag should NOT have come down from the capitol building at all. I agree it has no place in public anymore. The North won the war.

What I am saying is the media should recognize that it was the Republican Party who was instrumental in trying to take it down 40-50 years ago and the Democrats who protested it. It was the Republican Party who finally did bring it down. It was the Democratic Party who was in charge during all of the Jim Crow era.

BTW....As The World Turns....???? no pickles and lightly toasted bun???
I don't get it. Is there an inside joke I'm missing?

[fastpitchdad05]

Whoa there! I'm not saying the flag should NOT have come down from the capitol building at all. I agree it has no place in public anymore. The North won the war.

What I am saying is the media should recognize that it was the Republican Party who was instrumental in trying to take it down 40-50 years ago and the Democrats who protested it. It was the Republican Party who finally did bring it down. It was the Democratic Party who was in charge during all of the Jim Crow era.

BTW....As The World Turns....???? no pickles and lightly toasted bun???
I don't get it. Is there an inside joke I'm missing?

I disagree that it should not be allowed to flown in public. As long as it's not flown on government property it should be left up to the home or business owner to decide. A government museum could display it and there might be other examples I'm not thinking of that could be acceptable as well.

Is your point about the media that they should report all news fairly and accurately? Or is it just that you care in this case because the Republicans are not being recognized properly?

If it's the first point then I'm with you. If it's the second point I couldn't care less. I think my sentiments about the 2-party system were pretty clear.

[Hurricane]

first point: report the story fairly and accurately

I know it's too much to ask but all I want from my newspaper and TV News Shows is information from the facts of the story. IF I want a slant, then I would go to the internet blogs and sites for their "take" on the issue. IF I want to hear an opinion/analyst show then I know that's what I'm going to get. But I like to hear "both sides" argue their point with the facts of the story (like a healthy Debate Team in high school). Then, I can decide my own opinion based on those facts.

[Pale Rider]

Theres always 3 sides to a story...the truth and how 2 people view or review it...

As far as traitors JV...as a career soldier, I don't see the confederates as traitors, I would imagine the British referred to George Washington etc. as traitors ... The States seceded from a Govt they felt was tyrannical...American Revolution was started basically over taxation...Tea thing was over a 2% tax...LOL
and Civil war wasn't all about slavery. It was also about taxation of cotton...

MANY Northerners had slaves, and only about 1.5% of the southerners owned slaves...Think money if you want a root cause...and taxation...The New York draft rebellion...Lincoln sent approx. 4000 troops, fresh from Gettysburg to put down the revolt...basically shooting anyone who didn't 'comply'...(I think I have an issue with troops shooting civilians)
Many pages have been written about this...Gen Lee, knew the South couldn't win against the North...he was even offered command of the Army of the Potomac. http://www.history.com/this-day-in-hist ... m-u-s-army
Im from Ohio...as far as birth, so a North vs South argument isn't necessary...I'm simply saying militarily a region whose main export was cotton and had ONE foundry and a much smaller population cannot win a war against an industrialized (think steel) much more populated 'country'... Lee knew that...so did US Grant...who respected one another...
And FTR...Abraham Lincolns assassination (by a Democrat) was the worst possible thing that could have happened to the South
I LOVE history, but not necessarily the political side...because of the 3 sides to every story...I don't trust )(*&^%$ politicians now...1860s would have been no different...And ALL that was 150 yrs ago...NO ONE alive today had a damn thing to do with it...anymore than we did the invention of fire...which was immediately followed by the invention of the barbeque...

All this flag hype is a knee jerk reaction to something horrible, and more so as a distraction...
Personally I'd be more offended at the current unemployment rates of people...and about $20 trillion in debt...the fact that in most cities MLK Blvds main businesses are check to cash places and liquor stores, and that fast food joints are now career choices...The ACT scores of inner city youth in places like Detroit, Chicago (long list)...and I don't think Gen RE Lee or a flag so the armies didn't fire on their own troops had a whole to do with that...

One last quickie...Dukes of Hazzard...2 pretend rednecks riding around in a POS Dodge, being chased by buffoon cops with an fat cracker dumbass Mayor...all of which making fun of redneck crackers in general...vs...lets say Hogans Heroes...which had Nazis and even SS troops on TV...who murdered how many people in WWII?...

Media making people chase windmills...

[as the world turns]

BTW....As The World Turns....???? no pickles and lightly toasted bun???
I don't get it. Is there an inside joke I'm missing?

FP05 has been make my sandwiches for years........

[jonriv]

I don't see the Confederate soldiers as traitors, but I do see their leaderships as.(Jefferson Davis etc..)

As far as the cause of the Civil War-you have been in the South too long-"taxation of cotton"???? The states ceded from the Union following the election of Abraham Lincoln because they feared he would abolish slavery. The States rights they were fighting for was the Right to own Slaves. Yes, only a small percentage of Southerners owned slaves(which makes the wholle thing that much sadder) Most Northern States had outlawed slavery decades before with only Maryland remaining.

As far as the NY Draft riots- it was not Federal Troops but NY Militia units that were called back. Civillians were fired on, but those civillians had stolen rifles and a few Howitzers(My old unit the 71st was one that was called back)

I also agree that those taking it too an extreme(Dukes of Hazzards etc) are reeally missing the mark