South Carolina to Lower Confederate Flag

[Pale Rider]

Like I said, 3 sides...Neither one of us was there and as usual we disagree...
Militia or not, they were Federalized troops...Different stories, different numbers involved dependent on whose had written accts you use...
Neither side had much of an actual standing Army and both were comprised of a mish mash of Militia Units...
Funny thing...both sides had an Irish Brigade...They met each other at Maryes Height in Fredericksburg...and cheered for each others bravery...killed the shit out of another actually...sad times...
BUT
EITHER way, Slavery was wrong, it happened, its over...(except in AFRICA and other 3rd world s-holes)EVERY 'race' of people has been screwed over...and no one alive had anything to do with slavery anymore than they did about that Mt Vesuvius / Pompeii thing...

And Abe was right...
This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or exercise their revolutionary right to overthrow it.

[Pale Rider]

BTW....As The World Turns....???? no pickles and lightly toasted bun???
I don't get it. Is there an inside joke I'm missing?

FP05 has been make my sandwiches for years........

...I'll make ya a special sammich;)
Remember the Turbo Lax scene in Dumb and Dumber?

[jonriv]

Like I said, 3 sides...Neither one of us was there and as usual we disagree...
Militia or not, they were Federalized troops...Different stories, different numbers involved dependent on whose had written accts you use...
Neither side had much of an actual standing Army and both were comprised of a mish mash of Militia Units...
Funny thing...both sides had an Irish Brigade...They met each other at Maryes Height in Fredericksburg...and cheered for each others bravery...killed the shit out of another actually...sad times...
BUT
EITHER way, Slavery was wrong, it happened, its over...(except in AFRICA and other 3rd world s-holes)EVERY 'race' of people has been screwed over...and no one alive had anything to do with slavery anymore than they did about that Mt Vesuvius / Pompeii thing...

And Abe was right...
This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or exercise their revolutionary right to overthrow it.

At the time they were called back to state duty and released from federal duty at the time- only to be re-mustered into Federal service later. As for the Irish Brigade- after the 71st(American Guard) was retired I also served for a short time with the 69th Infantry(The Fighing irish-for whom Notre dame got its mascot) They have so many battle streamers they have the longest flag staff for their Regimental Colors in the Army. They also lead every St patricks day parade in New York(originally they were there to protect the marchers from violent Protestants)-"Gary Owen and Victory"

[jonriv]

An Ordinance to dissolve the union between the State of Alabama and the other States united under the compact styled "The Constitution of the United States of America"

Whereas, the election of Abraham Lincoln and Hannibal Hamlin to the offices of president and vice-president of the United States of America, by a sectional party, avowedly hostile to the domestic institutions and to the peace and security of the people of the State of Alabama, preceded by many and dangerous infractions of the constitution of the United States by many of the States and people of the Northern section, is a political wrong of so insulting and menacing a character as to justify the people of the State of Alabama in the adoption of prompt and decided measures for their future peace and security, therefore:

Be it declared and ordained by the people of the State of Alabama, in Convention assembled, That the State of Alabama now withdraws, and is hereby withdrawn from the Union known as "the United States of America," and henceforth ceases to be one of said United States, and is, and of right ought to be a Sovereign and Independent State.

Interesting when they put it in writing Waa Waa Waa, the Republicans got elected and we did not get are way so we're leaving!!!

[jonriv]

TEXAS

AN ORDINANCE To dissolve the Union between the State of Texas and the other States united under the Compact styled "the Constitution of the United States of America."

WHEREAS, The Federal Government has failed to accomplish the purposes of the compact of union between these States, in giving protection either to the persons of our people upon an exposed frontier, or to the property of our citizens, and

WHEREAS, the action of the Northern States of the Union is violative of the compact between the States and the guarantees of the Constitution; and,

WHEREAS, The recent developments in Federal affairs make it evident that the power of the Federal Government is sought to be made a weapon with which to strike down the interests and property of the people of Texas, and her sister slave-holding States, instead of permitting it to be, as was intended, our shield against outrage and aggression; THEREFORE,

SECTION 1.-- We, the people of the State of Texas, by delegates in convention assembled, do declare and ordain that the ordinance adopted by our convention of delegates on the 4th day of July, A.D. 1845, and afterwards ratified by us, under which the Republic of Texas was admitted into the Union with other States, and became a party to the compact styled "The Constitution of the United States of America," be, and is hereby, repealed and annulled; that all the powers which, by the said compact, were delegated by Texas to the Federal Government are revoked and resumed; that Texas is of right absolved from all restraints and obligations incurred by said compact, and is a separate sovereign State, and that her citizens and people are absolved from all allegiance to the United States or the government thereof.

I see no mention of a "Cotton Tax"???? Hmmm, I wonder what "property" they speak of???

[jonriv]

Pale- as far as the traitor concept. I do hope you are aware of the history of Arlington National Cemetery?

Arlington was for many years the estate of Colonel Robert E. Lee. Lee had graduated at the top of his class at West Point and had faithfully served his nation as an Army Officer throughout the Mexican War and then in Engineering and Cavalry assignments throughout our young nation. At the onset of the Civil War, after first refusing the command of all Union forces, he volunteered his services to his home state of Virginia. During the course of the war, his former estate was seized by the Union Army, which made it a headquarters. In 1864, with Union dead piling up throughout the Washington area, the search for a suitable site for a military cemetery resulted in a recommendation from Major General Montgomery Cunningham Meigs (the Union Quartermaster General) that Lee's former estate be converted to a burial ground. Meigs, a Southern native, had remained loyal to the Union and reportedly hated Lee for his service to the Confederate cause. Out of the death and destruction of the Civil War, and from this personal hatred, was born Arlington National Cemetery.

Taking arms against the Government in a democratic Republic because the vote does not go your way is not only unconstitutional-it is downright un-American. It totally goes against the ideas of the Founding Fathers. The reasons for the American War of Independence were many- many taxes(2% LOL) were so hated because they were passed by a Parliament that we had no representation in and who treated the colonists like second class citizens

[Pale Rider]

Duh, of course I know that Arlington was an illegal grab of private property...
And its NOT a Democratic Republic...Its a REPRESENATIVE Republic...we don't vote on everything...

Lincoln wasn't even on the ballot in the South...I'd sorta call that lack of representation...

Thomas Jefferson in his writings said that he felt that the 'Union' was partnership between states and that it was dissolvable if parties couldn't agree...and that happened...
And I AGREE Slavery was an issue, the BIGGEST issue but there's more to it than that...http://americanhistory.about.com/od/civ ... il_war.htm

But I think with your traitor remarks you've answered the whole thought process behind a 'Rebel'...or as in someone who doesn't follow lock step with everything a Govt does...
The 10th amendment is being thrown out the window...If States have no rights to self govern, why are there still States?
SCOTUS opened a BS slippery slope using the term The STATE can supersede rights and laws of the States...
I'm far from a traitor, but I don't trust government...that whole "uphold' and foreign and domestic thing comes to mind...

Again I agree to disagree...See if you can find BW and yall have a copy and paste argument...

[jonriv]

We are a Democratic Republic- a Republic by definition is government by representative-God you've been in the bayou too long……

A republic (from Latin: res publica) is a form of government or country [1] in which power resides in elected individuals representing the citizen body[2][3] and government leaders exercise power according to the rule of law. In modern times, the definition of a republic is commonly limited to a government which excludes a monarch.[3][4] Currently, 147 of the world's 206 sovereign states use the word "republic" as part of their official names.

As far as the tenth amendendment- I don't see it and in the rare case it comes in front the Feds seem to lose As far as who is costing me more money…, I pay a lot more in taxes in State Taxes(CT, RI & NY) than I do in Federal taxes


I do not believe in just following the Govt lock step, but the way to change the rules(law) is through voting and argument-not armed insurrection. Part of being in a Democratic Republic is realizing sometimes you win elections and sometimes you lose.

Lincoln was not on many ballots in the South because the States Governments kept in off(who is being un-democratic) yet he still won despite their gamesmanship. So even after losing(despite trying to rig the election) the answer for the southern states was to take their ball and go home. It would be funny if it were not so tragic. Also, despite the claims many of my southeren bretheren had during my time in the Army, the concept of "The War of Northern Aggression" is patenly false- since the first shots were fired by the south (ironically in Charleston)

I am no fan of Obama, but I realize he is now a lame duck and will be gone shortly

[Pale Rider]

Its a Representative Republic...http://www.thisnation.com/question/011.html

10th Amendment sets the power a State has over the Feds...

Taxes?...MS takes in 3X what it pays in Federal taxes...and has been that way since reconstruction...created by Democrats...and a decent model for when the rest of the Entitlement crowd catches up...1 in 3 are on Gov nipple...and growing...And I agree the NE States taxes are outrageous...

As far as funny...I really don't think so....Personally I wished they'd split the US and make 2 countries...One Conservative, and one liberal...With the current ratio of 2 people working for every freeloader...

I can tell you which one will survive...

[Dugout Dad]

This is getting out of hand. People are using ISIS tactics by destroying or removing historical monuments they don't like. History is history, let's look forward. Let's use history as reminders of never again.

We now have protestors wanting to dig up graves themselves. Insanity.
http://www.theamericanmirror.com/impatient-protesters-begin-digging-up-confederate-generals-grave-themselves/