R&R Gold Memorial Tournament...

[wadeintothem]

The mindset of some umps is already jaded..some justified some just have thin skinned..

I dont agree that an umpire has the right to start out a game jaded or with such statements. Those are umpires that cause themselves, their partners, the players, and the game trouble.

I have the shortest sweetest no bs pre game you can imagine.

Ha, I've wilted threw the most excrutiating pregames you can imagine.... hell then they even ask me if I have anything to add.. no I dont good lord, lets play already, you covered everything real or imagined.

I walk on the field I conduct myself with professional approach to the game and I expect the same in return and we dont need a 2 minute clinic about how to coach. Coaching is your job and I enter the game expecting you to know your job. I got enough of my own job to worry about. And 92%+ appreciate that and return that favor and my games go fine.

[Iluvblue]

Its kind of funny Wade. I often have gripes to the people running things and I often get the reply that, "Yeah, but most coaches arent like you, they dont care about this or that."

Well Wade, most umpires are not like you. You are an exceptional umpire, one of a dozen or so that take extreme pride in what you do. You have good game management skills, you understand that coaches are emotionally connected to the game, you dont ever talk sh.. to coaches. Believe it or not, we do get umpires that will walk across the field from the 1st base side to start up some bs with me in between innings well after a call has happened, I get stared down, I had an ump two weeks ago start telling parents in the stands they whine too much, and they wonder why they have problems.

If all umpires were like you, Id probably care more about your plight, but since there is a small fraction of umpires like you..........I just shrug my shoulders and say, lets play ball this weekend.


Question. What would you be doing if the Grapettes stopped doing ASA? Not that this is going to happen, but what if it did? What would your umpire group do then? Is it a labor issue? Sure it is, but I just dont see how you have any leverage in this. The teams are going to play, and even though in the past 2 tourneys we have had some completely inept umpires on the field, it will not keep us from going to the tournament and playing.

I think it is unfortunate. I feel bad for umpires that now dont get to work as many games. But let me ask one question. Were umpires in your group told point blank that if they worked at any of Bob's tournaments, that they would not be assigned to work at any of the ASA tournaments?
And if that did happen as some power play to force Bob's hand......... if I am betting on how this comes out, I put all my chips on Bob's side of the table.

[wadeintothem]

Were umpires in your group told point blank that if they worked at any of Bob's tournaments, that they would not be assigned to work at any of the ASA tournaments?
And if that did happen as some power play to force Bob's hand......... if I am betting on how this comes out, I put all my chips on Bob's side of the table.

Well, there is slightly more to it.. First off, Bob "hand" is not the issue now or before... I was told Bob's decision by the current IFA UIC last year before anything was done by our group -.. so, bob had already elected to separate from the ASA umpires on his own. You're betting on something that already happened and was decided by memorial day last year, when many fields even during the 09 tourny were IFA. That was well before anything was said by our group.

So that leaves, now. We must fulfill our contract with grapes, so obviously for huge tournaments we contact everyone. We even asked the "uic" of the IFA group to work last weekend. Obviously, we need everyone umpire we can get when all the complexes are running. I heard rumors last week that we werent using everyone and thats untrue, we asked everyone.

But still, due to RRG's insistence on a creating a separation of umpires, the available pool of umpires is no doubt affected, at least for now. No I can't tell you tomorrow - because I truely dont know. I wouldnt Like I've told you often though, there is no secret cache of umps and now that group is split. Just as there are ASA umps, such as myself, that will not, at this time, be working IFA - there are surely IFA umps who likewise will not work ASA. This is a natural response to a wedge.

Not all tournies are huge or require "all" available umpires and as we are all private contractors and can pick and choose where we want to work, likewise, we, as an association can prioritize our assignments based on our needs.

Many Many Many umpires right now have worked both ASA and IFA tournaments. That will continue to happen as we need to make sure our obligations are fulfilled, especially on the bigger events. But they arent all big events.

Other than that, yes those that work IFA will in many cases receive a MUCH lower, to even nil priority for ASA tournaments than those who have not been working the IFA tournaments. It is certainly not fair to those of us who did not opt to support IFA and their new endeavor to have the pool of available ASA assignments given split even further by the IFA umpires.

The appropriate decision has been made on that.

And yes, they were advised of exactly that at the beginning of the year and in fact even last year. This is not a secret.

[Iluvblue]

The appropriate decision has been made on that.

And yes, they were advised of exactly that at the beginning of the year and in fact even last year. This is not a secret


Well this is where we definitely disagree. If an umpire has done all he is supposed to do as far as your "Group," then IMO, if he works Bob's tourneys on those weekends, that should have no impact on that person. So the issue of not having enough umpires is your doing by giving people that ultimatum.

But that is all your business, not mine. I just run a little ol' team.

[wadeintothem]

The main thing here is this is a new split so I think we are all seeing how this will turn out...if it follows the pattern of when NSA split off, they'll be a "mutual assist" and respect thing going on, but other than a few that truely float everywhere, you stick to your group - I have no problem with NSA umps or the guy who runs them and I consider the guy who runs IFA umps and those umps to be my friends - but your team is your team.. you dont have a girl to play on Running Reb one week then Grapettes the next week then back to rebs.. (even it wasnt a code issue).

Not sure why you think its different with organizations of umpires.

Bob created a competing "team" of umpires and he had a very powerful umpire ally to do it with - perfect storm of opportunity and it worked. They have a umpire website, registrations, free hats and shirts from bob, and a UIC and a core organization and a very legit deal going on. No doubt about that.

We all just deal with that new reality now... as we are in all aspects of softball right now. There is obviously a big shift in many aspects of softball going on ... a blind man can see that, so we see what happens later ... later.

I would hope something could be worked out for next year that could benefit everyone (especially me who lost a bunch of games!).. but I am pessimistic about that.

[Iluvblue]

Not sure why you think its different with organizations of umpires.


Im not sure how you could view a team and individual umpires as even remotely close to the same thing. A team works as one unit, you may work with Suzie this game, Alex next game, and Darrel next game. You all should be able to seamlessly do that as your mechanics and rule sets are the same. As long as you all get paid, does it break your heart regarding WHO you work with? Im sure you have your preference, but it doesnt really matter.

A team can not bounce players each week and even think to play the game the right way. But teams WILL bounce around from IFA, NSA, or ASA as long as it benefits them, meaning most teams dont really have a loyalty as to any sanctioning body, something you all seem to have.

We also differ in that I dont see Bob as creating a competing team. He runs his tournaments, and thus he wants more control over HIS tournaments. So if he can get rid of the group that had ANY SAY SO over what he does, how he does it, or gives him any grief whatsoever... then out they go, and in comes a group that HE CONTROLS.

Now I have no idea what conflicts were going on between him and your group, I wouldnt even begin to speculate, but he obviously had his reasons. And if making more money was a reason, then that is HIS choice.

If I run a business and can cut my costs and make more money, isnt that the way of the world?
Hershey did it in Oakdale when they shut down a plant that had been here for 40 or more years, so I dont see how R&R is any different. He held all the chips, and you guys had nothing to bargain with.

IMO, we all have choices. As a coach, I can choose to play in Grapette, R&R, DFSoftball, Rainbow fields, or whatever tournaments. Ultimately, I will choose to do what I feel is best for my team, no matter who that impacts as far as money earned or lost. Right now, Grapettes and R&R provide the best tournaments for our dollars, so i will continue to go there. If someday someone else provides better facilities, lower costs, and better competition, then we will go there.

Hopefully, the adults play nice nice and it works out for the benefit of the most important part of this equation, the young ladies that play this sport. But they are normally not the number 1 priority.

[wadeintothem]

We also differ in that I dont see Bob as creating a competing team. He runs his tournaments, and thus he wants more control over HIS tournaments. So if he can get rid of the group that had ANY SAY SO over what he does, how he does it, or gives him any grief whatsoever... then out they go, and in comes a group that HE CONTROLS.

Now I have no idea what conflicts were going on between him and your group, I wouldnt even begin to speculate, but he obviously had his reasons. And if making more money was a reason, then that is HIS choice.

If I run a business and can cut my costs and make more money, isnt that the way of the world?
Hershey did it in Oakdale when they shut down a plant that had been here for 40 or more years, so I dont see how R&R is any different. He held all the chips, and you guys had nothing to bargain with.

ISeems to me like you are maybe a little clearer now at least. I have a conflicted opinion within and everyone has a slightly different version and opinion - most umps want nothing to do with the BS and just want to try to work a game they like and make a few bucks.. and some umps make a living officiating and really need it. I'm going to 18A Nats this year i could have used some real tourney work. I still was going to the circle last tourney. That may not mean anything to you, but to an umpire going to nats, they know exactly what that means - you aint working Sunday thats for sure.

Its hosed. I have no ill will really to anyone in all this, including bob himself, who I shook his hand and bs'd with him I think sat and sun at the tourney, to me we are all a softball family... I do think whats fair is fair. I agreed it was important to stand down to try to benefit all umpires of area and our org, to sacrifice a little - and we did now those people who did that deserve their games as the ASA season picks up here. Any other slots left over we need to call the IFA umps and bring em in and make sure we field the best umps we can appropriate to their level. And I agree, maybe soon everyone can play nice.

[Iluvblue]

Wade,
This is why I am not upset with what has happened with the umpires.
Yesterday we are losing 3-1 in likely the last inning. We score a run at the plate where the runner slides and swipes the plate with her hand, there is no tag attempt at all by catcher as it isnt close. Now the kid stands up and runs to dugout, all the while the HP blue is crouched over and STARING at the plate......2 sec, 3 sec, 4 secs, probably about 5 secs he is bent at the knees and just staring at the plate until one of our parents in the stands yells at him " Blue, that aint your job." Now he stands back up but it is OBVIOUS as hell what he was doing. He should have just jumped up and yelled to the other team that they should appeal this play as in his mind, the runner missed the plate.

Now the other team SOMEHOW either doesnt see this, or doesnt understand what he is blatantly doing. The next pitch is thrown and then our ASST coach is yelling into our dugout to the player in question about how important it is that she touch the plate and he points out what blue was doing and it obviously meant she missed the plate. At which time the blue yells over, "Oh, you got that, nobody else noticed." Now I noticed, but what he hell was I supposed to do, and at this point I go off on this guy as what he did was so ridiculous and could have cost us a run. This is TERRIBLE umpiring on his part and I get tossed and he has the normal attitude and tells me that "He can do whatever he wants,"and tells me to go find the UIC as it wont matter.

Well with this new group, it does matter, and after having a discussion about what happened with the UIC, that umpire got the boot for today, as did another umpire that we never saw but also is notorious for his shitty attitude.

Had this been an ASA game, NOTHING would have happened and us coaches would have just been screwed over and had to deal with it. At least these guys are trying to make sure the umpires arent going to get away with that type of "I can do whatever I want attitude."

[#1fann]

Dude, let it go! I`ve seen several games where you should have been tossed for being an over bearing jerk. If you were just running your big mouth toward your own players that would be one thing, but i`ve seen, on more than one occasion, where you are running your mouth to players on other teams. If you say you don`t, then you`re a liar as well as a loud mouth. I found out, after the fact that you said something to my daughter a couple of weeks ago during a game telling her what she should have done. Had i seen it at the time, you and i would have had a conversation about it. I`m sure we`ll see each other soon, and i`ll make a point to come talk to you. I`m sure the Grapette players and parents believe you are the greatest thing since sliced bread. Sorry, but i don`t share that sentiment. From a fan/parent`s view, I believe that coaches are like umpires and should be seen and not heard. The greatest games i`ve seen in any sport, didn`t involve an umpire or a coach trying to take the spotlight away from the true product on the field..... THE PLAYERS!!!

[dittoz]

Regardless of your personal opinion and attack of/on ILB, this is precisely the way it played out. We were the other team and I was sitting 10' from blue as he crouched over the plate following the play.

Personally, I thought the girl touched but obviously blue thought otherwise. I darn near wet myself though over his recounting of the HP umpire's actions to him at the plate!