Changes in the 14u world?

[PDad]

As to that "Best" pitcher, I'm not going to insult the other hard working girls by calling out a "best". Suffice it to say that the best will be solely in the opinion of an individual (or a parent!). My son is a HS baseball pitcher. Few would consider him to be the best on the team in light of the one on his team that many do consider to be the best. However, based on the pitcher's point system they use at the school that takes key "needs" into account when pitching, my son IS the best even though he doesn't always have the best record.

"Best" is only a theoretical and largely subjective term when it comes to individuals in a team sport....

The criteria chosen to determine the "best" is often subjective. People tend to choose whatever supports their belief.

I am curious about the point system you mentioned. How does it work?

[dittoz]

From the "points" perspective...

(honestly this is a sore subject for some parents at times and it causes some interesting conversations...)

On his HS baseball team, pitchers and hitters earn points based on performing specific tasks either on the mound or at the plate. Not just winning, hitting a homerun or amassing 1000 strike-outs, it takes into account whether the athlete is doing what they are supposed to.

* As a hitter, did you hit behind the runner or did you just hit it anywhere?
* As a hitter, did you get the bunt down on the H&R?
* As a hitter, did you hit the ball hard?
* As a hitter, did you have a 6+ pitch AB?
* As a pitcher, did you throw a first pitch strike?
* As a pitcher, did you hit your spots?
* As a pitcher, was your strike-ball ratio in line?

There are another eleventy-billion areas he rates too, but what this does is to take into account whether a pitcher or hitter is performing the finer points that in the long run (can) make them a better player. A pitcher who throws 100 mph in BB or 75 in FP is still valuable, but most don't so this HS coach has devised a system of charting players to show who is "better" when it comes to performance. The girl who throws 70 but still gives up walks is not as valuable as the girl who throws 60 and has massive movement and always gets the strikeout or the ground ball. Likewise, the girl who always hits her first strike and gets out front of the hitter early is more valuable than the one that has to go deep in the count everytime and takes away the pitch-calling flexibilty. It doesn't always work, but generally it paints a picture of trends.

The other night, my son came into a tie game as the stopper in the last inning. He struck out the side against a pretty amazing team and they went to extra innings. An inning later, he gave up a 2-run walkoff and lost the game. This early in the season, it shattered his ERA and he is 0-1. However he hit his spots, threw a first-pitch strike to every batter and only threw 11 pitches across the 1-1/3 innings. His point rating was quite high since he was doing his job.

(Unfortunately, one opposing hitter did his too...!)

[SnocatzDad]

Problem with quantifing many of those things is objectively power rating the opponent. We had a number 3 pitcher who had decent stats, but we usually pitched her against weaker opponents which skewed most of the stats in her favor. #1 still had an edge in nearly every category despite haveing to perform against better opponents that made it wasy to judge who was better. If I had two pitchers and one had great stats against a weak opponent and the other had okay stats against a strong opponent, not sure what I'd think I knew. At least with hitting statistics, ususally you can be sure that within the same team, they saw the same pitching, but comparing to a hitter on another team is pretty tough unless they play nearly identical schedules.

[PDad]

From the "points" perspective...
...
* As a pitcher, did you throw a first pitch strike?
* As a pitcher, did you hit your spots?
* As a pitcher, was your strike-ball ratio in line?

... Likewise, the girl who always hits her first strike and gets out front of the hitter early is more valuable than the one that has to go deep in the count everytime and takes away the pitch-calling flexibilty.

Pitchers who always throw first-pitch strikes run the risk of getting hit hard unless they have exceptional 'stuff' or do it with a variety of pitches. First-pitch strikes aren't very valuable if they're also base hits. I agree it is important for pitchers to not fall behind in the count a lot - but I consider 1-0 a neutral count as long as the pitcher's overall strike-ball ratio is decent.

The other night, my son came into a tie game as the stopper in the last inning. He struck out the side against a pretty amazing team and they went to extra innings. An inning later, he gave up a 2-run walkoff and lost the game. This early in the season, it shattered his ERA and he is 0-1. However he hit his spots, threw a first-pitch strike to every batter and only threw 11 pitches across the 1-1/3 innings. His point rating was quite high since he was doing his job.

Pardon me for saying it, but the pitch count doesn't add up:
- Struck out the side - at least 9 pitches
- 1-1/3 innings - at least 1 pitch for the 4th out
- 2-run walkoff - at least 2 pitches

ERAs and other statistical averages are meaningless when they're based on a small sample, like at the start of a season. The good news is the ERA should come down quickly.

Thanks for explaining your school's point system. Best wishes for your kids' seasons.

[xxxYerOut]

First-pitch strikes aren't very valuable if they're also base hits.

If it was a hit it's a hit and not a first pitch strike. A first pitch strike is a strike, not a hit...

[PDad]

First-pitch strikes aren't very valuable if they're also base hits.

If it was a hit it's a hit and not a first pitch strike. A first pitch strike is a strike, not a hit...

Pitches that are put in play are counted as strikes. Pitches that result in HBP are counted as balls.

The standard use of the term refers to not only pitches that lead to an 0-1 count, but also any balls that were put into play on the first pitch. The idea is that if the pitcher made a pitch that was in the strike zone or made the batter swing, he was throwing a strike regardless of whether it worked out successfully.

[dittoz]

Dang - you're definitely right on the missing pitch(es). I just went back and looked and it was stat'd as 1.1, not 1-1/3... I also suspect they missed a couple of pitches on the books because the guy who hit the walk-off def did not hit the first pitch. Good catch, but you still get the point hopefully...

And yes, 1st-pitch strikes are valuable whether hit or not. In the long run, it pays off far better than throwing a first-pitch ball where you would have to throw at least 2 more just to get ahead. Sure, there are times where you establish with a throw-away pitch, but across a season, the averages will play out. My son throws several different pitches but his most effective is a modified 2-seam / splitter / slider thing that effectively comes at the RH batter's hands and then falls away off the outside of the plate. On a first-pitch, it is pretty crazy to the batter...

Lastly, it really doesn't matter about the power rating of the opponent. As a pitcher, you cannot control the ability of the batter you face so you must continue to "do what you do". Again, across a season the picture becomes clear and in the unlikely event that every opponent is weak, well... so it goes I guess!

[Instig8or]

Instig8or is curious about the concept of "points"

Does it make the player better? Does the coach set his roster according to how many "points" a player scores? What is the coach using this private set of statistics for?

Instig8or thinks this would be a better tool to show parents why their children are sitting rather than to show who is playing the best. Most coaches already know that

[SnocatzDad]

Instig8or is curious about the concept of "points"

Does it make the player better? Does the coach set his roster according to how many "points" a player scores? What is the coach using this private set of statistics for?

Instig8or thinks this would be a better tool to show parents why their children are sitting rather than to show who is playing the best. Most coaches already know that

I disagree, it's easy to get caught up in the emotion of the game and stats or points allow you to analyze what really is going on. I've gone back over a weekend and thought a kid hit pretty well because they put one ball over the fence, but then see they were 2 for 15 for the weekend while someone else was on base 8 of 12 times with 4 singles and 4 walks. Pitching is the same way, it's easy to dismiss a slower pitcher who gets the job done and glorify the speed pitcher even when they get pounded or walk too many.

[2onthedirt]

Did anyone catch the Lady Magic 14U friendly on Saturday?

Any team standout?