PGF v. ASA

[porcupine]

Tennessee Fury is one of the top 16u teams in the country. Based somewhere near Chattanooga, Tennessee, I think. For the same reason sarge doesn't want to travel, teams like Fury from the south also won't want to travel. Texas teams may prefer a local hellhole to traveling across the country. That is why ASA will have solid championships despite PGF. PGF will have the better top competition not because the weather is better, but because we all prefer to stay home and CA teams generally are the top of the pile. The notion that just because PGF is in Huntington Beach everyone in the world will ignore all else and rush here is short-sighted, which is why I hope the overall PGF product is high quality.

As for the college coaches, most D1 schools have assistants. Just because a school sends a scout to PGF doesn't mean that school will not be represented at ASA. I am quite certain that most of the schools on the PGF list also will find their way to Chattanooga, just as they found their way to College Station last year. I just fear that PGF is starting off with the the same level of arrogance that IMO has caused ASA's problems. And most of the posts on here seem to suggest that nobody is concerened, because after all we get to stay home.

[AlwaysImprove]

Teams from our area are more than happy to travel where the best of the best are playing. That is pgf. Traveling to where less than the best are becomes more of a vacation. At that point why not Disney. Also, I could never imagine vacationing with people on my softball team, we do not pick them to be good vacationers.

ASA misjudged the momentum shift. People were already happy with the horrible locations, the ever growing length and stupidity of the schedule, the 160 team brackets that included teams that should not be playing.

For a team from Washington. Going to ASA will cost around $60k, going to PGF $15k. That is $45k. The additional $45k only going to excessive gouging on the part of ASA hotel partners and the stupidity of ASA 10/11 day tournament schedule. I suspect the expenditures for a Tenn team going to Midland and the PGF cost advantage are the same.

The ASA scare tactics about no umps is just goofy. Plenty of umpires in the world. You do not have to submit to ASA stupidity to get a good ump.

Last year at ASA 18gold there were only 2 of the top 50 teams (based on finish and results at Colorado and major tournaments that year). The other 48 were at PGF. PGF has again secured a TV partner most teams that are decent are going to play for a chance to play on TV.

Except for the TX teams, 14U looks to be following the same trend. A couple of very Pro ASA teams will make it to Midland. The rest of the country is smart and will go to PGF.

[txfastptchcoach]

I know for a fact that these 14U teams from Texas will be in Cali in August:

1. Austin's Finest's
2. Impact Gold
3. Texas Glory
4. TPS

So not everyone is staying home to play ASA just because it's in their back yard. These teams are chasing the best competition and as we know you have to play the best. The best come out of Cali. That was hard to admit but #'s don't lie year in year out.

[SoftballG]

So when is the "PGF Qualified" thread gonna get started and stickied like the "ASA Qualified" thread?

[ssarge]

Last year at ASA 18gold there were only 2 of the top 50 teams (based on finish and results at Colorado and major tournaments that year). The other 48 were at PGF.

Even if that is a LITTLE overstated, it was obvious that the vast majority of the top 18G teams were at Premier. I see nothing to believe that trend will be in anyway reversed.

The same will be true of 16U this year, in the second season. And 14U won't be far behind.

There IS critical mass for this sea change. There really is. If I were an executive within ASA, I'm not sure what I would even do to TRY to reverse it. Their first poorly considered response of announcing the Gold tournament in SoCal without securing fields didn't work some months ago. Made their situation worse. Made them look absolutely incompetent and ridiculous. ASA is really back against the wall right now, in terms of being able to continue claiming their national title to be the most prestigious.


Ultimately, the top travel programs, from age 14 through 18G, want to be able to accomplish two things:

1) Get their players looked at and committted / signed. Absent this, the team / organization will fade to obscurity.

2) Test their ability in a tournament against the top teams in the country.

The two objectives really are intertwined. Need to play where the recruiters are, in order to sign players and attract new players to the organization. Need to play well against top competition - meaning you have to be WHERE the competition is - in order to impress recruiters.


I think ASA 16 Nats will have some recruiters this year. Gold too, but has as been the trend for years, less than 16U. And mostly there to babysit their signed / committed players.

But there will be MORE recruiters at PGF at both the 16 and 18 tournaments. And a good number at 14s as well.

And the field at 16s and 18s will be far stronger at PGF than either ASA tournament. And quite possibly the same at 14s. And if it isn't the same this year at 14s, it will be next year.

And of course, 14 - 18 in the same geographic area is a real selling point to college recruiters. Not to mention families with kids of different ages competing.

Regards,

Scott

[AM Softball]

Traveling is the best part of softball and the friends you make along the way. Everyone loves playing teams from other parts of the country and don't mind paying to go there....but not all the time. Mix it up so they get to see Cali and what we offer too.

Seriously? OMG, no. I realize that people have different objectives in softball. But the coaches - and many players - of the top travel teams would in the aggregate, feel differently. At least IMO. If they could play top competition in their own area, AND attract college recruiters, I don't think top travel teams would leave their back yard. Ever.

And the Nationals, by and large, are the purview of the top travel teams. And if you have to travel to compete, PGF offers some advantages. I realize SoCal is still a road trip for many teams. But families with kids at two age groups can see both in one location. It is a direct flight from almost anywhere, so it is no more than 5 hours, rather than 8-10. Fares are relatively cheap. You know you'll be playing as scheduled when you get to SoCal, not looking at rain through a hotel window. There are many other things to do.

If I never travel on a plane to another softball tournament, I'll be happy. Once you've coached close to a decade in TB, PLUS traveled to see your DD play in college, the prospect of another week - or even weekEND - away from home seems incredibly unappealing to me. ESPECIALLY if it takes two flights to get there, and THERE is some place you would NEVER GO for any other reason than someone bid $500 more to gain the ASA event.

I realize other people's opinions may vary.

Best regards,

Scott

Yes, they do vary. Playing or coaching in one place the rest of my life seems like eating a turkey sandwich with the same bread and dressings everyday, all day, forever...BORING! There are top organizations looking to play at ASA Nationals exclusively this year, from what I was told, and I have talked to a few of the top organization 18G leaders that completely agree that they enjoy the traveling aspect of Nationals. One even told me he liked the fact that he had them in hotels, away from their friends, computers, etc. He said he might put them in hotels in So Ca this year because they focus more so I believe there are many different angles of these opinions as well. It isn't so plain and simple.

[AlwaysImprove]

Traveling is the best part of softball and the friends you make along the way. Everyone loves playing teams from other parts of the country and don't mind paying to go there....but not all the time. Mix it up so they get to see Cali and what we offer too.

Seriously? OMG, no. I realize that people have different objectives in softball. But the coaches - and many players - of the top travel teams would in the aggregate, feel differently. At least IMO. If they could play top competition in their own area, AND attract college recruiters, I don't think top travel teams would leave their back yard. Ever.

And the Nationals, by and large, are the purview of the top travel teams. And if you have to travel to compete, PGF offers some advantages. I realize SoCal is still a road trip for many teams. But families with kids at two age groups can see both in one location. It is a direct flight from almost anywhere, so it is no more than 5 hours, rather than 8-10. Fares are relatively cheap. You know you'll be playing as scheduled when you get to SoCal, not looking at rain through a hotel window. There are many other things to do.

If I never travel on a plane to another softball tournament, I'll be happy. Once you've coached close to a decade in TB, PLUS traveled to see your DD play in college, the prospect of another week - or even weekEND - away from home seems incredibly unappealing to me. ESPECIALLY if it takes two flights to get there, and THERE is some place you would NEVER GO for any other reason than someone bid $500 more to gain the ASA event.

I realize other people's opinions may vary.

Best regards,

Scott

Yes, they do vary. Playing or coaching in one place the rest of my life seems like eating a turkey sandwich with the same bread and dressings everyday, all day, forever...BORING! There are top organizations looking to play at ASA Nationals exclusively this year, from what I was told, and I have talked to a few of the top organization 18G leaders that completely agree that they enjoy the traveling aspect of Nationals. One even told me he liked the fact that he had them in hotels, away from their friends, computers, etc. He said he might put them in hotels in So Ca this year because they focus more so I believe there are many different angles of these opinions as well. It isn't so plain and simple.

Except one thing. Up until last year ASA 18gold was held in Oklahoma every year.

Me personally, I am actually fine with Oklahoma. ASA stadium there is a perfect location for a tournament. Oklahoma has enough flights that it is not too hard to find a reasonable one. Hotels are plentiful and it is easy to get one for a decent price.

The only issue remaining is stretching a 5 day tournament to 11 days. To the determent of the tournament. The only reason for stretching the tournament is to make more money.

[AlwaysImprove]

Last year at ASA 18gold there were only 2 of the top 50 teams (based on finish and results at Colorado and major tournaments that year). The other 48 were at PGF.

Even if that is a LITTLE overstated, it was obvious that the vast majority of the top 18G teams were at Premier. I see nothing to believe that trend will be in anyway reversed.

The same will be true of 16U this year, in the second season. And 14U won't be far behind.

There IS critical mass for this sea change. There really is. If I were an executive within ASA, I'm not sure what I would even do to TRY to reverse it. Their first poorly considered response of announcing the Gold tournament in SoCal without securing fields didn't work some months ago. Made their situation worse. Made them look absolutely incompetent and ridiculous. ASA is really back against the wall right now, in terms of being able to continue claiming their national title to be the most prestigious.


Ultimately, the top travel programs, from age 14 through 18G, want to be able to accomplish two things:

1) Get their players looked at and committted / signed. Absent this, the team / organization will fade to obscurity.

2) Test their ability in a tournament against the top teams in the country.

The two objectives really are intertwined. Need to play where the recruiters are, in order to sign players and attract new players to the organization. Need to play well against top competition - meaning you have to be WHERE the competition is - in order to impress recruiters.


I think ASA 16 Nats will have some recruiters this year. Gold too, but has as been the trend for years, less than 16U. And mostly there to babysit their signed / committed players.

But there will be MORE recruiters at PGF at both the 16 and 18 tournaments. And a good number at 14s as well.

And the field at 16s and 18s will be far stronger at PGF than either ASA tournament. And quite possibly the same at 14s. And if it isn't the same this year at 14s, it will be next year.

And of course, 14 - 18 in the same geographic area is a real selling point to college recruiters. Not to mention families with kids of different ages competing.

Regards,

Scott

I actually took the top 23 teams in order of finish from from Aurora fireworks and the top 25 teams from Independence day. I also threw in two teams from Sparkler like Team North Florida that had shown to be good over the year. I do not have the list in front of me any more, but I posted the numbers and the list of teams here. It was 2 to 48 or 3 to 47. It is easy to recreate the numbers, just grab a list of the teams from Fireworks, Independence day, the list from PGF and the list from ASA.

[jmo]

I actually took the top 23 teams in order of finish from from Aurora fireworks and the top 25 teams from Independence day. I also threw in two teams from Sparkler like Team North Florida that had shown to be good over the year. I do not have the list in front of me any more, but I posted the numbers and the list of teams here. It was 2 to 48 or 3 to 47. It is easy to recreate the numbers, just grab a list of the teams from Fireworks, Independence day, the list from PGF and the list from ASA.

Team North Florida won the Independence Day Boulder tourney last year. I think you mean Gold Coast Hurricanes. The Hurricanes have committed to PGF this year as has last year's ASA Champions, East Cobb Bullets.

[AM Softball]

Traveling is the best part of softball and the friends you make along the way. Everyone loves playing teams from other parts of the country and don't mind paying to go there....but not all the time. Mix it up so they get to see Cali and what we offer too.

Seriously? OMG, no. I realize that people have different objectives in softball. But the coaches - and many players - of the top travel teams would in the aggregate, feel differently. At least IMO. If they could play top competition in their own area, AND attract college recruiters, I don't think top travel teams would leave their back yard. Ever.

And the Nationals, by and large, are the purview of the top travel teams. And if you have to travel to compete, PGF offers some advantages. I realize SoCal is still a road trip for many teams. But families with kids at two age groups can see both in one location. It is a direct flight from almost anywhere, so it is no more than 5 hours, rather than 8-10. Fares are relatively cheap. You know you'll be playing as scheduled when you get to SoCal, not looking at rain through a hotel window. There are many other things to do.

If I never travel on a plane to another softball tournament, I'll be happy. Once you've coached close to a decade in TB, PLUS traveled to see your DD play in college, the prospect of another week - or even weekEND - away from home seems incredibly unappealing to me. ESPECIALLY if it takes two flights to get there, and THERE is some place you would NEVER GO for any other reason than someone bid $500 more to gain the ASA event.

I realize other people's opinions may vary.

Best regards,

Scott

Yes, they do vary. Playing or coaching in one place the rest of my life seems like eating a turkey sandwich with the same bread and dressings everyday, all day, forever...BORING! There are top organizations looking to play at ASA Nationals exclusively this year, from what I was told, and I have talked to a few of the top organization 18G leaders that completely agree that they enjoy the traveling aspect of Nationals. One even told me he liked the fact that he had them in hotels, away from their friends, computers, etc. He said he might put them in hotels in So Ca this year because they focus more so I believe there are many different angles of these opinions as well. It isn't so plain and simple.

Except one thing. Up until last year ASA 18gold was held in Oklahoma every year.

Me personally, I am actually fine with Oklahoma. ASA stadium there is a perfect location for a tournament. Oklahoma has enough flights that it is not too hard to find a reasonable one. Hotels are plentiful and it is easy to get one for a decent price.

The only issue remaining is stretching a 5 day tournament to 11 days. To the determent of the tournament. The only reason for stretching the tournament is to make more money.

I definitely agree with stretching the tournament out. That needs to change too.