ASA get lost

[UmpSteve]

The last bid numbers in my hands are the 2010 Nationals. Chattanooga paid $10k plus 400 per team (approx $32k more) for 10U, Bloomington, IN paid $6500 plus 400 per team (maybe $36k), for 12U, Moline, IL paid $10k plus 400 per team (maybe $48k), for 14U, College Station, TX bid $0 plus 400 per team (maybe 64K) for 16U, and Columbus, GA paid $5k plus $400 per team (maybe 48k) for 18A. The 18 Gold isn't publicly bid, but I would bet no more than $10k plus 400 per team (another $25k). The highest paying tournament is more like $64k, not $100k.

If your numbers per team are correct then in 2010 for 14u there were, I believe, 150+ teams.
So
72k+
Add in the entry fees for another 70k+. Gate fees for parents on top of that have to be close to another 100k+++ (45/wk for a pass, 14 kids per team. ONE parent per kid)
I thought I heard LM cut a check for close to 100k for 18A nationals in Hemet.
Where does this money go?

I do know that last year we were not allowed to draw for our bracket spot until we turned in our evaluation form. One big problem is how do you rate a week long tournament after the first two days????
Umpires, fields, facilities...Lind of early to make a true judgment.

SpazsDad, you are now mixing apples with your oranges. I told you what ASA gets; all of what it gets. Now you are mixing in what the local host gets, and what they may have arranged with the local/state association for their support, and what deals they have made with the local CVB. Like normal tournament hosts, they get the gate, they get the entry fees, they get the concession profits, they get a percentage of souvenir and vendor sales, etc., etc.

ASA (the National Office) gets the bid amount plus an assessment per team. That is it. If LM paid 100k, it included way more than what ASA got; that may be their total expenses, which include: UIC and National Office Rep per diems, housing, transportation and meals, umpire game fees, housing and meals, administrative costs, field maintenance costs, field rental or staff, paid staff (scorekeepers, gate workers), manager's meeting expenses (usually includes a meal), opening ceremony costs, players' party, umpire meeting needs. On and on, expenses paid by the host; but the money does NOT go to ASA.

Your assessment of all the forms of income is more true to the PGF model than the ASA model. One agency that handles all levels of expenses, and, in fact, receives all the income streams. Not claiming or insinuating anything inappropriate, but more closely associated with your assessment.

[AlwaysImprove]

Yeah, Johnson City is not that bad of a place, the weather is not really that bad. When you have a tournament that is 8 days, held in a place where most people will have to drive 4 hours from an airport. You are looking at 10 days, for a tournament that could take 4 days. Add in that they are asking for 50% markup and 25% taxes, it adds up real fast. For $90 a night hotel room you will be paying $160 a night. A tournament held like PGF is going to cost 90*5=450, double that for gas and food, and you get $900. For ASA you are going to pay $165*10*2 = $3300. That is 3300-900=$2200 in additional unnecessary expense per family. Figure average teams is 12 kids, that is $26,400 additional per team. That is a big number.

When we flew in I don't recall the airport being very far out of town (Tri-Cities) and our hotel was under 100/ night with breakfast. I don't see how you can automatically just double the hotel rate to figure food and gas costs. There is no way I spent 1600 on food for the week.
I also see you only quote 5 nights for PGF. If you are flying in you will probably still arrive on Saturday and leave the following Sunday so that is 8 nights and I don't know how many 90/night hotels are in the HB area.
Not trying to say ASA is the greatest but I think your numbers might be a little skewed o emphasize your point

Tri-Cities is Bristol. It is one flight a day. You book in January you have a shot. Book in March that flight will be booked. You are going to Charlotte,

Double your hotel expense is just a common formula used throughout the travel industry. Maybe that is a bit much for this trip, knock that down by half. Again you have to figure the rental car. You book a rental car in March it is going to be reasonable. You book a van two weeks before nationals in Johnson City TN you are going to pay, I think it was 1300 for the week just for the rental car.

For me I never really heard complaints from big market teams. The Corona Angels, the Victory USA, those teams knew they were getting berths, or had berths from the previous years. They always had nice team busses or vans, flew into Bristol stayed at the DoubleTree or Holiday Inn. The could book in September the year before.

You get your berth in mid-July, you are red eye to Charloette. There are no direct flights from Seattle to Charolette, so you are 8.0 hours flying time with a transfer. Add 3+ hours in an undersized rental full of kids sitting on gear, staying in the Super 8 for 90 a night, in a king room. By the time you get that room you are ecstatic. Been there done that.

I actually love softball and love going to tournaments with the young ladies, and I was ready to kill someone by the end of it. For the parents on our team that are not that into softball or whose kid was not a significant player, they were ready to check into a mental hospital. I felt sorry for them, it is too much.

Timing wise. Managers meeting is Sunday 7/31 @ 9am. That means you have to be there the day before, 7/30. First pool game is Monday, Second is Tuesday. First round of elimination is Wed. We had no game on Thursday as they finished the first round of games. First round of elimination was early Friday. So theoretically you could go home on Friday, but again, airline is full and you have to drive 3 hours to the airport just to see if there is a flight, and when there is not, you wish you would have stayed in Johnson City. Since it is a 8 hour flight and a 3 hr drive you cannot really schedule out on Sunday, so you get your flight for Monday. So you are looking at Sat 7/30 to Monday 8/8. So that is 9 nights in a hotel. This is a typical ASA schedule.

Last year for Premier. We had three pool games starting at 5:20pm on Tuesday 8/10, we took an easy 2.5 hour flight direct to SNA landed at 1pm. We were eliminated and sitting at home on the sofa having a beer on Friday night. That is 3 nights in the hotel.

I stay in hotels in Santa Ana/HB area more weekends than anyone. I have never payed more than 90 a night. I never have to book more than 3 days in advance. Both the Hyatt and the Hilton at Santa Ana airport have something like 450 rooms. They are designed for business travelers and sit largely empty every weekend. You walk through the rental car lot and every agency has 100's of cars waiting for someone to rent.

Yeah, you can say airlines are not ASA's fault, tournament timings are not Johnson Cities fault. limited hotel room availability is not ASA's fault. This money goes to ASA, that money goes to local ASA association, that money goes to local CVB, Blah Blah Blah. As soon as a reasonable alternative became available, we jumped. PGF is just too easy and is easily 1/3 the cost of an ASA tournament. Add in that PGF happens so fast the other parents on the team did not even have time to get in a fight with each other. It is a no brainer.

[Joe]

Yeah, Johnson City is not that bad of a place, the weather is not really that bad. When you have a tournament that is 8 days, held in a place where most people will have to drive 4 hours from an airport. You are looking at 10 days, for a tournament that could take 4 days. Add in that they are asking for 50% markup and 25% taxes, it adds up real fast. For $90 a night hotel room you will be paying $160 a night. A tournament held like PGF is going to cost 90*5=450, double that for gas and food, and you get $900. For ASA you are going to pay $165*10*2 = $3300. That is 3300-900=$2200 in additional unnecessary expense per family. Figure average teams is 12 kids, that is $26,400 additional per team. That is a big number.

When we flew in I don't recall the airport being very far out of town (Tri-Cities) and our hotel was under 100/ night with breakfast. I don't see how you can automatically just double the hotel rate to figure food and gas costs. There is no way I spent 1600 on food for the week.
I also see you only quote 5 nights for PGF. If you are flying in you will probably still arrive on Saturday and leave the following Sunday so that is 8 nights and I don't know how many 90/night hotels are in the HB area.
Not trying to say ASA is the greatest but I think your numbers might be a little skewed o emphasize your point

Tri-Cities is Bristol. It is one flight a day. You book in January you have a shot. Book in March that flight will be booked. You are going to Charlotte,

Double your hotel expense is just a common formula used throughout the travel industry. Maybe that is a bit much for this trip, knock that down by half. Again you have to figure the rental car. You book a rental car in March it is going to be reasonable. You book a van two weeks before nationals in Johnson City TN you are going to pay, I think it was 1300 for the week just for the rental car.

For me I never really heard complaints from big market teams. The Corona Angels, the Victory USA, those teams knew they were getting berths, or had berths from the previous years. They always had nice team busses or vans, flew into Bristol stayed at the DoubleTree or Holiday Inn. The could book in September the year before.

You get your berth in mid-July, you are red eye to Charloette. There are no direct flights from Seattle to Charolette, so you are 8.0 hours flying time with a transfer. Add 3+ hours in an undersized rental full of kids sitting on gear, staying in the Super 8 for 90 a night, in a king room. By the time you get that room you are ecstatic. Been there done that.

I actually love softball and love going to tournaments with the young ladies, and I was ready to kill someone by the end of it. For the parents on our team that are not that into softball or whose kid was not a significant player, they were ready to check into a mental hospital. I felt sorry for them, it is too much.

Timing wise. Managers meeting is Sunday 7/31 @ 9am. That means you have to be there the day before, 7/30. First pool game is Monday, Second is Tuesday. First round of elimination is Wed. We had no game on Thursday as they finished the first round of games. First round of elimination was early Friday. So theoretically you could go home on Friday, but again, airline is full and you have to drive 3 hours to the airport just to see if there is a flight, and when there is not, you wish you would have stayed in Johnson City. Since it is a 8 hour flight and a 3 hr drive you cannot really schedule out on Sunday, so you get your flight for Monday. So you are looking at Sat 7/30 to Monday 8/8. So that is 9 nights in a hotel. This is a typical ASA schedule.

Last year for Premier. We had three pool games starting at 5:20pm on Tuesday 8/10, we took an easy 2.5 hour flight direct to SNA landed at 1pm. We were eliminated and sitting at home on the sofa having a beer on Friday night. That is 3 nights in the hotel.

I stay in hotels in Santa Ana/HB area more weekends than anyone. I have never payed more than 90 a night. I never have to book more than 3 days in advance. Both the Hyatt and the Hilton at Santa Ana airport have something like 450 rooms. They are designed for business travelers and sit largely empty every weekend. You walk through the rental car lot and every agency has 100's of cars waiting for someone to rent.

Yeah, you can say airlines are not ASA's fault, tournament timings are not Johnson Cities fault. limited hotel room availability is not ASA's fault. This money goes to ASA, that money goes to local ASA association, that money goes to local CVB, Blah Blah Blah. As soon as a reasonable alternative became available, we jumped. PGF is just too easy and is easily 1/3 the cost of an ASA tournament. Add in that PGF happens so fast the other parents on the team did not even have time to get in a fight with each other. It is a no brainer.

So There!!!

[thor2173]

All I can say is my 10U DD is very excited about going. I booked our flight just last week and paid 399 a ticket round trip into TRI. Double Tree 79 a night. rental car 21 a day. that seems like a good price to me..... and as far as things to do. there is plenty. just hangin with the team is great. there is alot to do. you just have to search.

[AlwaysImprove]

and when little Susie went on to college her team made it to the NCAA D-1 world series in wonderful Oklahoma where the weather was warm to say the least the humidity was off the chart, the city was everything but exciting. The bugs were the size of crows. Someone started a petition the name was never revealed that they should have played the series in Beverly Hills, with swimming pools and movie stars.

I have never had a problem with the weather in OKC. I grew up in that weather. I think OKC is a great place for a tournament. City is fine, plenty of flights, plenty of rental cars, plenty of hotels.

ASA backloads their tournaments to keep teams in town and milk every dollar they can. Add in that ASA holds tournaments in locations that are prone to afternoon thunder showers like Johnson City TN, Rockford IL, Bloomington IN, Montgomery AL. Add in the fact that ASA loves to book 160, 170 teams to a tournament. That adds up way too many tournaments getting wrecked out at the end. Which really sucks since everyone is in town for 9 days and you drive by countless empty fields. It sometimes seems that ASA nationals is about watching other teams eat in restaurants.

Compare that to a system which allows 70 or so teams. Has lots of fields. Plays three pool games on the first day, does not backload the schedule. The fact that the tournament is held in a place that most likely will not rain out is just gravy.

What ASA was doing had gotten so far afield of reality it just did not make any sense.

[AlwaysImprove]

All I can say is my 10U DD is very excited about going. I booked our flight just last week and paid 399 a ticket round trip into TRI. Double Tree 79 a night. rental car 21 a day. that seems like a good price to me..... and as far as things to do. there is plenty. just hangin with the team is great. there is alot to do. you just have to search.

Price* Airline Airports Leave–Arrive Stops|Duration
$733 US Airways SEA>TRI 10:15p–10:46a 1 | 9h 31m | econ
TRI>SEA 5:27a–12:18p 1 | 9h 51m | econ

Price* Airline Airports Leave–Arrive Stops|Duration
$352 Delta SEA>LAX 6:00a–8:43a 0 | 2h 43m | econ
LAX>SEA 6:15p–8:43p 0 | 2h 28m | econ

Yes, I do have to admit prices on hotels for ASA nationals this year in Johnson City, TN are on the website and are very reasonable. Two years ago this was not the case, this seems to be directly the result of pressure from PGF.

[oldskool]

Our team traveled to play ASA for eight years:

10U Tulsa, Ok
10U Johnson City, Tn
12U Moline, Il
12U Aurora, Co
14U Johnson City, Tn
14U Normal, Il
16U Owensboro, Ky
18U Oklahoma City, Ok

Last year PGF:

18U High School Division Huntington Beach, Ca.

This year:

18U High School Division Huntington Beach, Ca.


According to the well travelled players on this team....they would rather go to HB every year. The seniors (now moving into their sophomore year in college) from last year's team still talk about that trip. This year's seniors and other returners are excited about going back and happy they are not having to play in Oklahoma City. And they live in Texas!

PGF has got it going on...Hope they continue to get better.

But...they are gonna have to keep reigns on DH or he will hurt them with PR.

JMHO

[robin whitmarsh]

Our daughter plays 14u travel ball and we all love it. Last year we went to Utah for TCS and had a great time. Yes you are always putting out money, but we knew that going into this. We are looking at the long picture with this, maybe our daughter will get something for college. But if she doesn't we have come along for the ride and so far the ride has been fabulous!!!
This year we are going to Premiere in Huntington Beach, Ca. Which is an hour from where we live. But no matter where we had to go or had the opportunity to go, we would be going. My money issues, if there were any would be kept to myself for that is no ones business and thats not why we do this. You can't put a dolloar amount on your daughters.

Like the saying goes: Trip to Utah, TCS spent $3000.00, Our daughter hit the winning runs in twice, and a great trip with our daughter and the team... White water rafting, injuries PRICELESS!!!

Just go along for the ride and enjoy every moment, for before you know it, they will be gone and off on their own...

[CheckWriter]

Park City is not Normal or Midland. Cool town, lots to do. I think there would be a lot less complaining about ASA if they hosted in Park City or similar geography on a regular basis.

JMO