Premier National Championship Fee...Really?

[crashsdaddy]

Ask ASA why invite process is not dropped. They been doing this for years, and still hand out tons of invites.

ASA hands out invites to pump up their numbers. I have seen years where they took the field from 70 teams to 150 teams with invites. 150 teams get's everyone to stay in town 2 extra days. ASA invites are for cash. Now you have to play ton's of teams that are not even A ball teams. It's a wreck.

PGF hands out invites to try and get more competitive teams. I'll take the PGF approach any day.

As far as talent assessment. It is easily checked. Look at the teams that are getting great players signed to competitive teams. The PGF guys definitely stay on top of who is playing great ball.

There have been numerous posters on here point that one team or another is on an invite and they stink. Everytime, every single time, that team has gone on to run through all the great talent at Colorado Independence day, and finish deep at PGF. Not a single time has PGF gotten it wrong. If you have counter example, bring it up.

Great, you think it boils down to only invites, that it is petty and that it is a Good Old boys network, you should join the 150 teams 70 of which are on invites and not even A ball teams at ASA nationals. Enjoy your trip. Competitive teams will be at PGF.

My point in all of this wasn't to claim ASA is doing it right. Clearly they are not. ASA and PGF are wrong to use invites so heavily. Just for different reasons. My point was that PGF could still do it better and achieve an even greater level of success if they got rid of the invites. There are still a lot of teams out there that are not even trying to get to PGF because they see it as a good ol' boys network because of those invites. Teams that could qualify. As far as calling out a team, sorry to disappoint you. I didn't enter into this to single anyone out but the assumption that all the invited teams would qualify is just that, an assumption. Asking all teams to play in a qualifier is not that big of an ask. They are going to play somewhere, right? Why not a qualifier?

I hate that every time PGF vs ASA comes up it spirals into a pissing match over BS details.

Is HB a better location? Yes, but we're not going to nationals to go sight seeing or the beach. We're there to play softball.

Is PGF cheaper? For some teams yes, for others no. Over all it's a drop in the bucket compared to what we all spend the rest of the year anyway.

Is the quality of teams better? A field of 64 will always have an over all quality that's higher than 124 or 200 or 300. But the top teams are the top teams. No one suddenly became a better team because PGF came into existence.

Umpires...well, so long as they make good consistent calls...whatever. Give'm more free sandwiches. The best umpires are the ones you never notice.

I'm simply trying to get to meat of the issue. And that's the invites. They have the appearance of favoritism, real or perceived. It's just my opinion, but if PGF got rid of them, their popularity would grow significantly and ALL of the best teams would try to get there. Would that be a bad thing?

[PDad]

ASA hands out invites to pump up their numbers. I have seen years where they took the field from 70 teams to 150 teams with invites. 150 teams get's everyone to stay in town 2 extra days. ASA invites are for cash. Now you have to play ton's of teams that are not even A ball teams. It's a wreck.

I presume you are talking about ASA's fill-in berths. Which National(s) did you see them used to this extent?

[AlwaysImprove]

Ask ASA why invite process is not dropped. They been doing this for years, and still hand out tons of invites.

ASA hands out invites to pump up their numbers. I have seen years where they took the field from 70 teams to 150 teams with invites. 150 teams get's everyone to stay in town 2 extra days. ASA invites are for cash. Now you have to play ton's of teams that are not even A ball teams. It's a wreck.

PGF hands out invites to try and get more competitive teams. I'll take the PGF approach any day.

As far as talent assessment. It is easily checked. Look at the teams that are getting great players signed to competitive teams. The PGF guys definitely stay on top of who is playing great ball.

There have been numerous posters on here point that one team or another is on an invite and they stink. Everytime, every single time, that team has gone on to run through all the great talent at Colorado Independence day, and finish deep at PGF. Not a single time has PGF gotten it wrong. If you have counter example, bring it up.

Great, you think it boils down to only invites, that it is petty and that it is a Good Old boys network, you should join the 150 teams 70 of which are on invites and not even A ball teams at ASA nationals. Enjoy your trip. Competitive teams will be at PGF.

My point in all of this wasn't to claim ASA is doing it right. Clearly they are not. ASA and PGF are wrong to use invites so heavily. Just for different reasons. My point was that PGF could still do it better and achieve an even greater level of success if they got rid of the invites. There are still a lot of teams out there that are not even trying to get to PGF because they see it as a good ol' boys network because of those invites. Teams that could qualify. As far as calling out a team, sorry to disappoint you. I didn't enter into this to single anyone out but the assumption that all the invited teams would qualify is just that, an assumption. Asking all teams to play in a qualifier is not that big of an ask. They are going to play somewhere, right? Why not a qualifier?

I hate that every time PGF vs ASA comes up it spirals into a pissing match over BS details.

Is HB a better location? Yes, but we're not going to nationals to go sight seeing or the beach. We're there to play softball.

Is PGF cheaper? For some teams yes, for others no. Over all it's a drop in the bucket compared to what we all spend the rest of the year anyway.

Is the quality of teams better? A field of 64 will always have an over all quality that's higher than 124 or 200 or 300. But the top teams are the top teams. No one suddenly became a better team because PGF came into existence.

Umpires...well, so long as they make good consistent calls...whatever. Give'm more free sandwiches. The best umpires are the ones you never notice.

I'm simply trying to get to meat of the issue. And that's the invites. They have the appearance of favoritism, real or perceived. It's just my opinion, but if PGF got rid of them, their popularity would grow significantly and ALL of the best teams would try to get there. Would that be a bad thing?

PGF uses invites to make their tournament stronger. That is exactly how I like it.

[AlwaysImprove]

ASA hands out invites to pump up their numbers. I have seen years where they took the field from 70 teams to 150 teams with invites. 150 teams get's everyone to stay in town 2 extra days. ASA invites are for cash. Now you have to play ton's of teams that are not even A ball teams. It's a wreck.

I presume you are talking about ASA's fill-in berths. Which National(s) did you see them used to this extent?

First year PGF had a 16's or a 14's tournament, the ASA tournament that year took the number of teams to new unheard of heights, largely using fill-in berths.

[PDad]

ASA hands out invites to pump up their numbers. I have seen years where they took the field from 70 teams to 150 teams with invites. 150 teams get's everyone to stay in town 2 extra days. ASA invites are for cash. Now you have to play ton's of teams that are not even A ball teams. It's a wreck.

I presume you are talking about ASA's fill-in berths. Which National(s) did you see them used to this extent?

First year PGF had a 16's or a 14's tournament, the ASA tournament that year took the number of teams to new unheard of heights, largely using fill-in berths.

PGF had 16's the first year, 2010. They added 14's the next year.

I think the increase in teams was due to the increase in association berths in 2009. SoCal ASA went from 3 to 12 and Sioux Falls 16U had 164 teams that year. They're entitled to 8 fill-in berths and can only use additional ones up 138 teams. I tracked the 155 14U teams in 2010 and there were only a handful I couldn't account for their berth.

14U: 2006 - 111, 2007 - 129, 2008 -- 81, 2009 - 122, 2010 - 155, 2011 - 103, 2012 - 114
16U: 2006 - 136, 2007 - 137, 2008 - 144, 2009 - 164, 2010 - 160, 2011 - 172, 2012 - 148

[rdelawder12]

Not beating on PGF, but since inception that's all I've heard how the tournament will travel to other states each year like ASA and only want the BEST OF THE BEST.
I looked at the 18u and teams entered and starting the process, cant help but to laugh at an invite to a team that's never been in the top 10 of any quality tournament entered in the past year and finished tied for 5th in their local Qualifier, but yet a team that's attended PGF each year since inception who finished 4th and won the invite to Platinum and is showing registered for Platinum. Sure does pay to know people!! I thought the idea was to get the best teams to Premier and the less fortunate attend Platinum?
How is that fair to parents that will be spending the monies for their kid to travel the country to obtain a berth, while some teams with "who you know" don't have to travel to get the berth! Should be no invites during the summer run, qualify to play the best or play USSSA!

Lil Saints didn't get an invite. They traveled and qualified in FL. Nice rant though.

I recommend checking the PGF National Qualifier & Championship info page to see how teams got their berths.

I heard the the tournament was cancelled due to lack of participation, bracket shows a whopping 3 teams entered but yet no games played and I only see 2 teams are on the list as qualified, where did NJ Intensity disappear to? how do you not consider that an invite? I guess the state of Fla is saying NO to PGF, kind of helps with ASA Gold in their back yard this year....

[AlwaysImprove]

ASA hands out invites to pump up their numbers. I have seen years where they took the field from 70 teams to 150 teams with invites. 150 teams get's everyone to stay in town 2 extra days. ASA invites are for cash. Now you have to play ton's of teams that are not even A ball teams. It's a wreck.

I presume you are talking about ASA's fill-in berths. Which National(s) did you see them used to this extent?

First year PGF had a 16's or a 14's tournament, the ASA tournament that year took the number of teams to new unheard of heights, largely using fill-in berths.

PGF had 16's the first year, 2010. They added 14's the next year.

I think the increase in teams was due to the increase in association berths in 2009. SoCal ASA went from 3 to 12 and Sioux Falls 16U had 164 teams that year. They're entitled to 8 fill-in berths and can only use additional ones up 138 teams. I tracked the 155 14U teams in 2010 and there were only a handful I couldn't account for their berth.
14U: 2006 - 111, 2007 - 129, 2008 -- 81, 2009 - 122, 2010 - 155, 2011 - 103, 2012 - 114
16U: 2006 - 136, 2007 - 137, 2008 - 144, 2009 - 164, 2010 - 160, 2011 - 172, 2012 - 148

16's 2009. The socal tournament originally was held for 3 berths. As things played out they handed out the additional 9 berths. That was repeated across the country. Not sure this is different from how PGF is doing.

[PDad]

Not beating on PGF, but since inception that's all I've heard how the tournament will travel to other states each year like ASA and only want the BEST OF THE BEST.
I looked at the 18u and teams entered and starting the process, cant help but to laugh at an invite to a team that's never been in the top 10 of any quality tournament entered in the past year and finished tied for 5th in their local Qualifier, but yet a team that's attended PGF each year since inception who finished 4th and won the invite to Platinum and is showing registered for Platinum. Sure does pay to know people!! I thought the idea was to get the best teams to Premier and the less fortunate attend Platinum?
How is that fair to parents that will be spending the monies for their kid to travel the country to obtain a berth, while some teams with "who you know" don't have to travel to get the berth! Should be no invites during the summer run, qualify to play the best or play USSSA!

Lil Saints didn't get an invite. They traveled and qualified in FL. Nice rant though.

I recommend checking the PGF National Qualifier & Championship info page to see how teams got their berths.

I heard the the tournament was cancelled due to lack of participation, bracket shows a whopping 3 teams entered but yet no games played and I only see 2 teams are on the list as qualified, where did NJ Intensity disappear to? how do you not consider that an invite?

None of the FL brackets were updated, yet I know 16U played. Jeresey Intensity is on the 18-Platinum qualified list.

There was supposed to be 3 berths and PGF took 1 away from both 14U and 18U because they only had 3 teams. Cie la vie.

[rdelawder12]

That's good to know, but all 3 team qualifiers should be cancelled! JMO allowing too many average teams to get in... just sayin.
However, I think I know why I like ASA and don't really want to say negative things about PGF as it's in growing stages, but I like ASA because they try to get 120 to 160 teams in the National tournament, those tournaments really put a lot of money into the communities and then the invites to all the local teams to complete the team total, gives a lot girls and families an opportunity to see and be around teams from ALL OVER THE UNITED STATES, and the best of the best will surface or it's one of those any given sunday rules and the underdog wins! It's going to take a lot to replace what ASA does and with location changes every year saves a lot of recruiting monies, since most the D1 schools in the US are EAST OF THE MISSISSIPPI!
Since recruiting today focuses mainly on 14 and 16u ASA is the place to be, however I think PGF is giving ASA Gold a run for their money, but wont be official until they give up the home field advantage and home field umpires! JMO

[crashsdaddy]

PGF uses invites to make their tournament stronger. That is exactly how I like it.

So without the invites the best teams wouldn't show up?