Premier National Championship Fee...Really?

[PDad]

PGF had 16's the first year, 2010. They added 14's the next year.

I think the increase in teams was due to the increase in association berths in 2009. SoCal ASA went from 3 to 12 and Sioux Falls 16U had 164 teams that year. They're entitled to 8 fill-in berths and can only use additional ones up 138 teams. I tracked the 155 14U teams in 2010 and there were only a handful I couldn't account for their berth.
14U: 2006 - 111, 2007 - 129, 2008 -- 81, 2009 - 122, 2010 - 155, 2011 - 103, 2012 - 114
16U: 2006 - 136, 2007 - 137, 2008 - 144, 2009 - 164, 2010 - 160, 2011 - 172, 2012 - 148

16's 2009. The socal tournament originally was held for 3 berths. As things played out they handed out the additional 9 berths. That was repeated across the country. Not sure this is different from how PGF is doing.

BS, it wasn't increased afterward. ASA changed the association berths at their annual meeting in 2008 to their current formula of giving the larger associations a berth for every 500 teams registered. There was considerable discussion on here about the increase prior to the SoCal State tourney.

ASA's expansion of association berths was welcome relief to the SoCal teams because we didn't have to chase berths outside our region anymore. Some strong teams still had to go to our regional and NQ to get berths - mainly due to the blind draw down here. The resulting mega-nationals were too big though.

I simply questioned your assertion of ASA handing out 80 invites because I've never seen anything like that. I didn't say anything about the PGF invites.

For the record, most of the invites are deserving and I doubt anyone would want to draw them as a first round opponent. There are a few that fall under the "Host" berth category. I've been toying with the idea of allowing teams to challenge an invited team for their berth - best 2 out of 3 during a PGF Qualifier. Each invited team could only be challenged once. It would be very interesting to see what would happen and it would quiet the critics.

[PDad]

That's good to know, but all 3 team qualifiers should be cancelled! JMO allowing too many average teams to get in... just sayin.
I disagree on canceling them. PGF should have taken more berths away. I'd like to see PGF allocate the berths after they see the number of teams entered because there is too much of a disparity in the qualifiers regarding the competition for berths.

However, I think I know why I like ASA and don't really want to say negative things about PGF as it's in growing stages, but I like ASA because they try to get 120 to 160 teams in the National tournament, those tournaments really put a lot of money into the communities and then the invites to all the local teams to complete the team total, gives a lot girls and families an opportunity to see and be around teams from ALL OVER THE UNITED STATES, and the best of the best will surface or it's one of those any given sunday rules and the underdog wins! It's going to take a lot to replace what ASA does and with location changes every year saves a lot of recruiting monies, since most the D1 schools in the US are EAST OF THE MISSISSIPPI!
You're concerned about saving the colleges money? I don't think that's a real issue. Colleges are going to go where their prospects are playing. I think the coaches that come to PGF tend to be from upper echelon programs and some didn't come in the past because they didn't think they had a chance at recruiting anyone. The new 18U Platinum level might attract more of those coaches.

Since recruiting today focuses mainly on 14 and 16u ASA is the place to be, however I think PGF is giving ASA Gold a run for their money, but wont be official until they give up the home field advantage and home field umpires! JMO

You really need to get over that before it drives you completely bonkers...

[AlwaysImprove]

PGF had 16's the first year, 2010. They added 14's the next year.

I think the increase in teams was due to the increase in association berths in 2009. SoCal ASA went from 3 to 12 and Sioux Falls 16U had 164 teams that year. They're entitled to 8 fill-in berths and can only use additional ones up 138 teams. I tracked the 155 14U teams in 2010 and there were only a handful I couldn't account for their berth.
14U: 2006 - 111, 2007 - 129, 2008 -- 81, 2009 - 122, 2010 - 155, 2011 - 103, 2012 - 114
16U: 2006 - 136, 2007 - 137, 2008 - 144, 2009 - 164, 2010 - 160, 2011 - 172, 2012 - 148

16's 2009. The socal tournament originally was held for 3 berths. As things played out they handed out the additional 9 berths. That was repeated across the country. Not sure this is different from how PGF is doing.

BS, it wasn't increased afterward. ASA changed the association berths at their annual meeting in 2008 to their current formula of giving the larger associations a berth for every 500 teams registered. There was considerable discussion on here about the increase prior to the SoCal State tourney.

ASA's expansion of association berths was welcome relief to the SoCal teams because we didn't have to chase berths outside our region anymore. Some strong teams still had to go to our regional and NQ to get berths - mainly due to the blind draw down here. The resulting mega-nationals were too big though.

I simply questioned your assertion of ASA handing out 80 invites because I've never seen anything like that. I didn't say anything about the PGF invites.

For the record, most of the invites are deserving and I doubt anyone would want to draw them as a first round opponent. There are a few that fall under the "Host" berth category. I've been toying with the idea of allowing teams to challenge an invited team for their berth - best 2 out of 3 during a PGF Qualifier. Each invited team could only be challenged once. It would be very interesting to see what would happen and it would quiet the critics.

ASA had 3 berths for that tournament forever. Days before, or a week, whatever the timing, they materialize 9 berths, which are "handed out". That was repeated across the country, to swell the ranks for that tournament to goofy numbers, 164 teams.

I much prefer the PGF model. Keep the teams to 64. Find ways to get the most competitive teams to come to your tournament. Hold it in an awesome location. Keep the timing down to playing the tournament, not holding people in town days before, days during and days after.

You like the ASA model, call BS, then off to Midland with you. Bring some extra samwiches.

[AlwaysImprove]

PGF uses invites to make their tournament stronger. That is exactly how I like it.

So without the invites the best teams wouldn't show up?

Not sure. Not sure it matters. I know how PGF runs it, the best teams show up.

[AlwaysImprove]

Not beating on PGF, but since inception that's all I've heard how the tournament will travel to other states each year like ASA and only want the BEST OF THE BEST.
I looked at the 18u and teams entered and starting the process, cant help but to laugh at an invite to a team that's never been in the top 10 of any quality tournament entered in the past year and finished tied for 5th in their local Qualifier, but yet a team that's attended PGF each year since inception who finished 4th and won the invite to Platinum and is showing registered for Platinum. Sure does pay to know people!! I thought the idea was to get the best teams to Premier and the less fortunate attend Platinum?
How is that fair to parents that will be spending the monies for their kid to travel the country to obtain a berth, while some teams with "who you know" don't have to travel to get the berth! Should be no invites during the summer run, qualify to play the best or play USSSA!

Lil Saints didn't get an invite. They traveled and qualified in FL. Nice rant though.

I recommend checking the PGF National Qualifier & Championship info page to see how teams got their berths.

I heard the the tournament was cancelled due to lack of participation, bracket shows a whopping 3 teams entered but yet no games played and I only see 2 teams are on the list as qualified, where did NJ Intensity disappear to? how do you not consider that an invite? I guess the state of Fla is saying NO to PGF, kind of helps with ASA Gold in their back yard this year....

Team North Florida, nuff said.

[AlwaysImprove]

Now let's beat PGF up for what they should be beaten.

Dear PGF - Why have you not gotten Disney, Universal and Enterprise to be media partners? Show up at Espn/Fox/whomever, with advertisers in place, and get your event broadcast.

[softball**mom]

Was going to retract a comment made earlier about having two horrible umps in first game as the umps in game two were first class all the way. But I guess I can't because the first post disappeared.

[rdelawder12]

ASA hands out invites to pump up their numbers. I have seen years where they took the field from 70 teams to 150 teams with invites. 150 teams get's everyone to stay in town 2 extra days. ASA invites are for cash. Now you have to play ton's of teams that are not even A ball teams. It's a wreck.

I presume you are talking about ASA's fill-in berths. Which National(s) did you see them used to this extent?

14u Nats in Moline, IL ASA brought in 9 local teams at the last minute due teams not showing up. ASA awards berths in a state for every 500 teams registered, If I remember right Ohio usually has 9 and AZ gets 2, that's the only states I know not including a regional or Oklahoma.

[Clean_up]

What? Y'all thought that Baby Bash was free last year?

I was just going to say the opening ceremonies, which were fantastic, are also quite expensive..

[PDad]

ASA had 3 berths for that tournament forever. Days before, or a week, whatever the timing (7 months), they materialize 9 berths, which are "handed out" (awarded based on order of finish, just like the rest). That was repeated across the country, to swell the ranks for that tournament to goofy numbers, 164 teams. (added 20 teams - 13.8%. It seemed worse for you after only having 81 in Midland the year before, which was extremely low - usually 120+ for 14U.) I suspect the change was pushed through by the larger associations that wanted something more equitable because they were tired of chasing berths all over the country.

I much prefer the PGF model. Keep the teams to 64. (agree) Find ways to get the most competitive teams to come to your tournament. (work in progress) Hold it in an awesome location. (need to find a 2nd site to get all the best teams) Keep the timing down to playing the tournament, not holding people in town days before, days during and days after (it's now 7 days because of TV ).

You like the ASA model, call BS, then off to Midland with you. Bring some extra samwiches.

Nope, we did PGF instead of Midland 2 years ago - we knew better.

Both have their place in the softball world and neither one is perfect. Both should distribute their berths geographically based on a combination of participation and performance. jmho