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College Recruiting

Ivy League Commitments

Questions and Discussions Regarding the College Recruiting process

by fastpitchdad05 » Fri Aug 26, 2016 5:10 pm

Mark H wrote:I think that's well known but I may be assuming too much. Its good to make it very clear.


Hey Mark, I sent you a PM when you have a moment.
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by Mark H » Sat Aug 27, 2016 6:21 am

fastpitchdad05 wrote:
Mark H wrote:I think that's well known but I may be assuming too much. Its good to make it very clear.


Hey Mark, I sent you a PM when you have a moment.


I see it. In a car on the way to practice. I'll get with you asap.

Speaking of that if anyone has an 18 gold outfielder we are looking for one more in Houston.
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by jtat32 » Sat Aug 27, 2016 12:55 pm

I'm no expert, but my understanding of many of the Ivies, as well as a lot of the other top-ranked private schools, is that many of them have very substantial endowments and the actual cost of a degree is generally significantly lower than the sticker price for most students, not just those who play sports.

Most of the players that played on my teams came from families that didn't absolutely need an athletic scholarship to send their DDs to college. They weren't rich, and a scholarship certainly wouldn't hurt, but they could find a way to pay their way. So, most weren't really chasing a scholarship, but a lot of them had a notion that they could use softball as a way to potentially help get them into a school that they otherwise might not make the cut for.

There were a couple of questions that I would ask those families to consider. I didn't have the exact answers for them, so they were really just questions for consideration, not opinions that I was giving them. It would be interesting to hear some input from those who are more familiar with the process and experience what their take on these questions would be:

- If softball is the edge that gets you into a school that you wouldn't get into on you academic merits alone, are you going to be able to compete academically with those students who did while you are carrying the extra time commitment of practices and games?

- Will you be able to get the degree you want?

- Will that degree justify the expenses that you will incur getting it?

My impressions on the last two are that most, if not all, Ivies are extremely supportive of their athletes' academic schedules and tailor their commitment expectations around that. That doesn't necessarily hold true for all of the elite schools with softball programs.

Edit: Forgot an important (at least IMHO) question:

- Is the extra time and expense that you need to put into your softball going to pay the best dividends with regard to college opportunities and expenses, or would that time and money be better spent on academics.
Last edited by jtat32 on Sat Aug 27, 2016 4:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by fastpitchdad05 » Sat Aug 27, 2016 1:58 pm

Mark H wrote:
fastpitchdad05 wrote:
Mark H wrote:I think that's well known but I may be assuming too much. Its good to make it very clear.


Hey Mark, I sent you a PM when you have a moment.


I see it. In a car on the way to practice. I'll get with you asap.

Speaking of that if anyone has an 18 gold outfielder we are looking for one more in Houston.


Thanks Mark, no problem and thanks in advance.
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by hit4power » Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:37 am

It would be interesting to hear some input from those who are more familiar with the process and experience what their take on these questions would be:

- If softball is the edge that gets you into a school that you wouldn't get into on you academic merits alone, are you going to be able to compete academically with those students who did while you are carrying the extra time commitment of practices and games?

- Will you be able to get the degree you want?

- Will that degree justify the expenses that you will incur getting it?

My impressions on the last two are that most, if not all, Ivies are extremely supportive of their athletes' academic schedules and tailor their commitment expectations around that. That doesn't necessarily hold true for all of the elite schools with softball programs.

Edit: Forgot an important (at least IMHO) question:

- Is the extra time and expense that you need to put into your softball going to pay the best dividends with regard to college opportunities and expenses, or would that time and money be better spent on academics.


My $0.02 FWIW...my DD just graduated from one of the NESCAC schools and was recruited by both Ivy and NESCAC - I don't think the answers/experiences are hugely different between the two conferences - most kids I know of at either Ivy or NESCAC schools looked at schools in both conferences. The academic level, policies, and costs are all similar - it comes down to fit as the individual schools, degree programs, coaches, etc can be quite different.

1) On paper, my kid had test scores placing her in the 3rd q'tile of admitted students at her school - she graduated in the top quartile. Some of her teammates were clearly in the 4th q'tile and struggled mightily. Even from a prestigious school, ending up with a 2.3 GPA is not good, especially if you are thinking about grad school. Even my kid's final GPA was borderline for grad school consideration and in her mind, had she not played ball she could have improved that GPA. I would suggest that you should aim for a school where your HS grades and SAT/ACT will put you in the 2nd or 3rd quartile (or better) of admitted students so that your kid has a good chance of graduating with a 3.0 or better. All that said, it comes down to the student at the end of the day and her ability to manage her time, get help as needed, and to remember grades and academic performance are more important than anything else.

2) Regardless of the academic level of the school, you had better go to a school where you can get the degree you want and the school and athletic department (and coach) will support you. Ideally, that degree will be something the school is known for as the school's reputation in that field might buy you a little consideration if your GPA is "close" but not exactly what an employer is looking for.

3) I never know how to answer the "does the expense justify the degree" question. Both my kids went to top notch schools. One has a STEM degree making 6 figures, the other has a liberal arts degree making far less. Both pursued their passions and both love what they do - and both are out of the house and off the payroll. I'd say what I spent was worth it.

4) To your last question - my DD would never trade the experiences she had as a softball player for more time spent in the library or the classroom. The playing field, the weight room, the coaches office, etc all taught her far more than she could have learned by taking another class or writing another paper. Her boss told her that the she was hired in part because of the way she talked about leadership and teamwork and the lessons she learned as a softball player....
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by jtat32 » Thu Sep 01, 2016 1:26 am

Good info and good insight hit4power.

I suppose my questions began to veer of Ivies (or NESCAC) as they went on. Most of my players were academics first kids and carried high GPAs, so the last question didn't come up much on our team. I was thinking of other players we knew that put a ton of time and money into softball but graduated HS with GPAs in the mid 2s. It none of my business, and I don't have a problem with how anyone else chooses to prioritize their sports and education, but it seems like questions like that should be included more in the general discussion about softball and scholarships.
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by as the world turns » Thu Sep 01, 2016 7:17 am

Indoctrination begins immediately, they only have 4 years to mold minds, no time to waste.

http://www.campusreform.org/?ID=8078
“Life is hard; it's harder if you're stupid.” John Wayne
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by fastpitchdad05 » Thu Sep 01, 2016 3:41 pm

as the world turns wrote:Indoctrination begins immediately, they only have 4 years to mold minds, no time to waste.

http://www.campusreform.org/?ID=8078


You're right, ATWT...I think we should paint all 5453 Yale undergraduate students with the same brush as these "roughly 20" students.

There are protests like this at nearly every university in the country including the one I attended when dinosaurs roamed the earth. Let's give the other 5400 or so at Yale credit for being their own individuals just like we were when we were young and had to sort things out.

Ever the curmudgeon... :roll:
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by Mark H » Thu Sep 01, 2016 7:22 pm

Speaking for Dartmouth, what I've been told and what I saw for the four years my favorite coach was there is, if you can get in and are willing to work hard, you will be fine academically.

As to the Ivy schools being of a liberal bent, there are very few schools that aren't. Just the sad truth. Something to consider but other options are few.
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by as the world turns » Thu Sep 01, 2016 10:58 pm

fastpitchdad05 wrote:
as the world turns wrote:Indoctrination begins immediately, they only have 4 years to mold minds, no time to waste.

http://www.campusreform.org/?ID=8078


You're right, ATWT...I think we should paint all 5453 Yale undergraduate students with the same brush as these "roughly 20" students.

There are protests like this at nearly every university in the country including the one I attended when dinosaurs roamed the earth. Let's give the other 5400 or so at Yale credit for being their own individuals just like we were when we were young and had to sort things out.

Ever the curmudgeon... :roll:


Oh yes, they will receive a balanced education with a neutral point of view :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/11/28/ivy-leaguers-overwhelmingly-supported-obama-in-campaign-contributions.html

Now, go make me a sandwich and put that Cal State Make-Me-A-Sandwich education to good use.
“Life is hard; it's harder if you're stupid.” John Wayne
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