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FACE MASK

by tex » Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:31 am

artomatic wrote:Out of nowhere, and the rest of the mask pack: you would have better responses if you didnt resort to vilifying everyone who disagrees with your opinion.
I disagree with you. my kid is a pitcher, and she doesnt wear a mask.
it's our choice.
I respect your opinion, please try to do the same.



Most of the pro mask people are voicing their concerns not because of opinons to not wear a mask because of "personal choice", but are only concerned with the safety and well being of the child. Players of sports have enough injuries as it is and if we as parents can use equipment to minimize injuries to these players then the smart thing to do would be to use them.

It is a safeguard like helmets, pads, mouth pieces- so again I ask why not use face protection?
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by pbj2000 » Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:56 am

I agree that a mask should be warn...but you can't mandate it. The reason you can't mandate it is because of the numbers. Until the amount of pitchers getting there face crushed outweighs the number of pitches they throw it'll never happen.

So should a pitcher wear a mask...sure for protection
Can we make a pitcher wear a mask for protection...no
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by Phantomz08 » Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:42 am

All I can say is that any girl that plays 1st, 3rd or pitcher on a team that I am in charge of, they will wear a face mask. If the parent disagrees, then they will be looking for another team to play for. If your dd played on my team artomatic, she would be wearing a mask when she pitches.

I respect your decision to not make your dd wear a mask, not sure if outofunderwear does, but I feel for you, and her for not wanting to wear the mask, because you are going to be sooooo regretful it isn't funny. My dd took a shot back in 10U and it happened so quick she did not have time to raise her glove. Thank God for the face mask. Hopefully it will never happen to your dd or any of the other people electing not to wear them, but if it does, it is all on you and you will feel horrible for a very long time.

Mark
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by artomatic » Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:08 am

Phantomz08 wrote:All I can say is that any girl that plays 1st, 3rd or pitcher on a team that I am in charge of, they will wear a face mask. If the parent disagrees, then they will be looking for another team to play for. If your dd played on my team artomatic, she would be wearing a mask when she pitches.

I respect your decision to not make your dd wear a mask, not sure if outofunderwear does, but I feel for you, and her for not wanting to wear the mask, because you are going to be sooooo regretful it isn't funny. My dd took a shot back in 10U and it happened so quick she did not have time to raise her glove. Thank God for the face mask. Hopefully it will never happen to your dd or any of the other people electing not to wear them, but if it does, it is all on you and you will feel horrible for a very long time.

Mark


Mark.
I appreciate your concerns, and I also appreciate you voicing them in a respectful manner.
What I don't like is some of the mask pack using insults, etc to get their point across.
My kid has pitched for 9 yrs, since she was 6 yrs old.
she is now playing in the 16u division.
I am seeing more masks around here (socal) in the 10's and 12's) than I have seen in the past.
But honestly, I can't remember seeing one in the 16's or 18's this season.
I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just what I see in socal.
Good luck to you and your team.
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by DunninLA » Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:42 pm

As a 12U and now 14U coach responsible for positioning my F3/F5 (and having no reponsibility for positioning F1 :) ), this subject is of great relevance to me. I don't want girls getting hurt, and I think (and sometimes worry) about exactly how close can I position my F5 in an expected sacrifice bunt situation.... 25'? 30'? 35'? 40'? I am mostly concerned about the batter who shows bunt, then hits away. I don't even like thinking about that possibility, but it happens almost once per game.

So, I've taken a few minutes to calculate the chances of a hard hit ball actually hitting the head of a fielder.

First, the chances of a struck ball (fair or foul) being in the HORIZONTAL (left to right) zone of a players head (that means the ball is on a line to their head, but could be on the ground, in the air, etc. is 1 in 125. I get this by first finding the # of feet in the 40' circle around the batter, then figuring how may ball widths that is, and then understanding a fielders head is about 2 ball widths wide.

Second, the chances of a struck ball (fair or foul) being in the VERTICAL (high to low) zone of a players head (that means the ball is about 5' off the ground, but will be left or right of their head most of the time) is about 1 in 167.

The chances that a ball is HIT on a line to actually HIT the pitchers head (could be a soft hit or a hard hit) then is 1 in (125*167), or about 1 in 20,000.

If we're concerned with balls hit very hard only, let's call that one in three, that leaves us 1 in 60,000 ball contacts that are HARD at a fielder's head.

Let's say a batter makes contact with a ball (foul ball or put in play) on average 3 times each at bat. So each batter has a 1 in 20,000 chance of hitting a ball HARD on a line toward the pitcher's face.

So you see, it's no different from the odds of winning a lotto. THERE WILL BE A WINNER, or in this case, a LOSER who gets a ball hit very HARD straight into their face, and then it is only a question of whether the glove gets up to deflect or catch the hard hit ball.

So, 1 in 20,000 batters will hit a ball very hard right into a pitchers face. If you accept that 10% of the time, that pitcher will fail to get a glove on the ball, then if follows that 1 in 200,000 batters will actually hit a pitcher's face with a hard driven ball.

Most #1 pitchers will face under 2,000 batters in their careers in live game conditions. That's why it is extremely uncommon for a pitcher to be sent away in an ambulance. But these statistics say that 1 in 100 pitchers will eventually get hit in the face with a hard driven ball and will likely get rushed to the hospital with broken bones in the face.

That also means 99 in 100 pitchers will end their careers never having been hit directly in the face by a hard driven ball.

Every parent must simply decide whether a 99% chance of an injury free face is good enough odds, or whether the 1% chance of the ambulance ride is unacceptable.

Of course the stats for F5s is very different, because they are only exposed the way a pitcher is on a sacrifice bunt situation in which the batter shows bunt, but then hits away. That reduces the chances of an F5 being hit in the face by at least 90%, so lets call in 1 in 1000 F5s will get hit in the face by a hard driven ball. Am I comfortable asking F5 to play 30' from the batter in a bunt situation? With 999 out of 1000 F5s ending their career face injury free? It's that 1 in 1000 that always gives me pause....

So, these odds are for every coach and parent to wrestle with. and as players become 18, for them to wrestle with as well.
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by Phantomz08 » Tue Dec 01, 2009 6:01 am

Wow, that was a load of information there. My 1st, 3rd and pitcher will still be required to wear one though.
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by NewCoach » Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:07 pm

My 10yo DD wears a mask whenever she is in the infield. This is my choice, I am simply not confident in her ability and or reaction times. There may come a day when she can presuade me that she dosent need one, but for now she will wear it. As an EMT I have twice seen the results of a ball hitting a face. If youve never seen it, you dont want to.

If a TD mandates that F1 and corners must wear masks, what mask will be acceptable? Who has certified that these masks safe? What are the standards to be considered safe? Withstand a direct blow of 50mph, 60, 90mph? What is the liability if a player wearing a mask gets hit and still suffers damage? If face masks are mandated, why not heart guards, shin guards, sliding shorts?

As I said mine wears a mask. The choice for your DD is yours. I pray that mine never drives one into your DD, I am afraid that may end two players involvement in FP.
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by yellowjacket » Thu Dec 03, 2009 4:37 pm

1 in 60,000 or 1 in 200,000, it really doesn't matter. It only takes one time to affect the rest of her life. I'm sure if you poll the parents of the pitchers, 1st and 3rd basemen that HAVE been hit, they would probably say if they had to do it all over again, they would make their kids wear a mask. At least I would think. I don't care about stats or anything like that when it comes to safety. My dd wears a mask and that's the bottom line. If any coach requires his/her players to wear them in certain positions, so be it. If the parents don't like it, I guess there are other teams out there. Err on the side of safety.

If you think about the younger machine pitch age groups being 6 or 7 and playing against some 8 year olds with bodies like 12u players, having your daughter in the circle with no mask is probably not the best idea. I have seen a 7yr old take a line drive to the face in MP and if it wasn't for the mask, who knows how much damage would have been done. I have heard a story about another player in 8u that took a line drive to the face which broke her nose, orbital bones and other things which caused issues with her sinuses and breathing. She is no longer playing softball and has endured several surgeries. It only takes one time. Do what you wish with your kid, I'll do what I wish with mine.
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by FP-VOICE » Fri Dec 04, 2009 11:39 am

WOW, DunninLA that was a butt load of information. I'll bet you go out and buy lottery tickets from time to time and I doubt that you would buy them unless you Thought this might be the time you hit the big jackpot. Well you might have a 1 in 17,000,000 chance but you still go out and buy them. Just remember the next time you send your dd to the mound to pitch without a face mask that she has a better chance of getting her face smashed by a hard hit ball than you do of winning that lottery and the last fifty chances that you bought and did not hit could have bought protection for her face. Why take the chance???????????
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by cHeCk Yo SeLf » Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:42 pm

It is unfortunate and tragic on what it takes to force a mandate. Playing the odds of probability with one's own and other peoples children's safety is illogical and irresponsible. And the post about not being able to mandate because the number of injuries doesn't justify it, is plain idiotic. So tell us, what WOULD it take for a mandate????
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