Explain what the strike zone is?

[HugoTafurst]

Thanks to all of you that posted.
I know now that the strike zone is not a consistant call even though it should be. I don't mind a bad call by an umpire if they are consistant in their calls. I will just get my pitchers and catchers to work together more to telegraph the strike zone the Ump is looking for.
One of the reasons I posted this topic was to see if the Strike Zone was considered a judgement call by rule. I have heard that excuse alot in the last year from the Ump behind the plate and don't necesarrily agree with it being a judgement call.

Of course it is a judgement call - How could it be anything else.
Did I judge that the ball passed through the strike zone?

And let's be real.
With me standing in the slot down, behind the catcher, the ball is going to look a lot different to me than it is to you in the 3rd base dug out.

[nohesitation]

Variation’s in wording of the ASA, NFHS and NFCA strike zones.

ASA Strike zone FP:
That space over any part of home plate, when a batter assumes a natural batting stance adjacent to home plate, between the batter’s arm pits and top of the knees.
ASA version leaves out if you use the front or rear arm pit and front or rear knee and no comment about what portion of the ball must enter the zone. ASA is the vaguest and there fore the largest variation of zone interpretations.

NFHS Strike zone:
The strike zone (FP) is the space over home plate which is between the batter’s forward armpit and the top of the knees when the batter assumes a natural batting stance. Any part of the ball passing through the strike zone in flight shall be considered a strike. The umpire shall determine the batter’s strike zone according to the batter’s usual stance.

With NFHS you get some clarification regarding the “forward” arm pit and “Any part of the ball” passing through the zone. The forward arm pit usually higher with the added “any part of the ball” makes this zone the largest.

NCAA Strike zone:
1.108 Strike Zone
The area above home plate between the bottom of the batter’s sternum and the top of her knees when she assumes her natural batting stance. When the top of the ball is on or within the horizontal plane and either side of the ball is on or within the vertical plane of the strike zone, a strike is called unless the ball touches the ground before reaching home plate.Note: Home plate is the white rubber plate and does not include a black border. (See diagram at the end of Rule 11.)

With NCAA they use “bottom of sternum” as a top of horizontal strike zone. This is around 3” or 4” below the armpit and limit any part of the ball above this point. There by lowering the zone by up to 8”. This is the smallest zone.

Interesting note that the black border of the plate is not part of the 17” wide zone.

[SnocatzDad]

Of course it is a judgement call - How could it be anything else.
Did I judge that the ball passed through the strike zone?

Read the above three different variations for NFHS, ASA, NCAA. So the strike zone is not a judgement call, it's a definition and it shouldn't be out of line to ask which "definition" the umpire is using to get an idea of what judgements he will make. The judgement call is whether a particular pitch passed through the strike zone, that you should not question.

I just think armpits to knees is a ridiculous definition based on the rarity of anyone calling a pitch that high a strike. Update the definition.

[wadeintothem]

Of course it is a judgement call - How could it be anything else.
Did I judge that the ball passed through the strike zone?

Read the above three different variations for NFHS, ASA, NCAA. So the strike zone is not a judgement call, it's a definition and it shouldn't be out of line to ask which "definition" the umpire is using to get an idea of what judgements he will make. The judgement call is whether a particular pitch passed through the strike zone, that you should not question.

I just think armpits to knees is a ridiculous definition based on the rarity of anyone calling a pitch that high a strike. Update the definition.

ASA writes and teaches more about the strike zone than the simple definition, many people (some umps included) choose to ignore their follow up clarifications and instruction... even though it is in black and white.

[MTR]

Of course it is a judgement call - How could it be anything else.
Did I judge that the ball passed through the strike zone?

Read the above three different variations for NFHS, ASA, NCAA. So the strike zone is not a judgement call, it's a definition and it shouldn't be out of line to ask which "definition" the umpire is using to get an idea of what judgements he will make. The judgement call is whether a particular pitch passed through the strike zone, that you should not question.

I just think armpits to knees is a ridiculous definition based on the rarity of anyone calling a pitch that high a strike. Update the definition.

Been going through this for more than 20 years. And it always seems to be the non-umpiring group who always think they know better. Go ahead, redefine it and remember, it must be for everyone, 8 yo to 80 yo, male and female. Oh, BTW, it must be something visably discernable to the umpire from behind the plate.

ASA's strike zone is pretty well defined regardless of nohesitation's opinion which appears to be offered without the benefit of the full weight of the rule determining when a strike is to be called.

Notice that ASA's rule states the armpitS and top of the kneeS. That's right, PLURAL. For SP, they are quite specific concerning the front knee and the back shoulder. IOW, any intelligent individual should reason that means it is the lower armpit and higher knee when the batter takes position adjacent to the plate.

BTW, it used to be bigger as the strike zone used to INCLUDE the knees and shoulders. And as many have explained for years that if the umpires called the actual strike zone, you would go ballistic. That is why the umpires are directed to bring it down a little, but spread it out a little bit. This gives the batter more hittable pitches and the pitcher the same area in which to get a strike.

[nohesitation]

Of course it is a judgement call - How could it be anything else.
Did I judge that the ball passed through the strike zone?

Read the above three different variations for NFHS, ASA, NCAA. So the strike zone is not a judgement call, it's a definition and it shouldn't be out of line to ask which "definition" the umpire is using to get an idea of what judgements he will make. The judgement call is whether a particular pitch passed through the strike zone, that you should not question.

I just think armpits to knees is a ridiculous definition based on the rarity of anyone calling a pitch that high a strike. Update the definition.

ASA writes and teaches more about the strike zone than the simple definition, many people (some umps included) choose to ignore their follow up clarifications and instruction... even though it is in black and white.

I have listened to those explanations at ASA mechanics classes. If asked by a coach what my strike zone was in ASA tournament play, my answer would site the vague description to avoid protest on the grounds that I’m not using ASA guidelines. Should the ASA strike zone in the rule book be so vague?

[wadeintothem]

I dont hold strike zone clinics with coaches during tournament play. I was talking about a discussion here.

[SoCalASABlue]

If a coach wants to know where a pitch was, the coach needs to ask his catcher. If the catcher can't tell the coach where the pitch was, then the coach is not properly teaching the catching position.

It's not my job as a PU to tell the coach whether the pitch was high or low, inside or outside.

[Bretman]

If asked by a coach what my strike zone was in ASA tournament play...

If I'm in a good mood, feeling charitable and the coach is being polite about it:

"The strike zone is over the plate and between the batter's armpits and knees."

This is where I turn away, put on my mask and get behind the plate. I will never go into any explanations about what "my" strike zone is going to be, or how I interpret the rule, or how the rule is supposed to be interpreted. I think that doing so ultimately leads to more arguments and problems. Giving some convoluted answer isn't going to change someone's mind about what they think the strike zone should be. If anything, it just gives a coach ammunition to whine about the strike zone...("C'mon, Blue! You said you were going to give us that pitch today!".)

If I'm not in a good mood, not feeling charitable, or think the coach is just trying to play some preemptive mind games by asking "what my strike zone is":

"Coach, you're about to find out in a minute!"

This is where I turn away, put on my mask and get behind the plate...

[SnocatzDad]

Been going through this for more than 20 years. And it always seems to be the non-umpiring group who always think they know better. Go ahead, redefine it and remember, it must be for everyone, 8 yo to 80 yo, male and female. Oh, BTW, it must be something visably discernable to the umpire from behind the plate.

ASA's strike zone is pretty well defined regardless of nohesitation's opinion which appears to be offered without the benefit of the full weight of the rule determining when a strike is to be called.

Notice that ASA's rule states the armpitS and top of the kneeS. That's right, PLURAL. For SP, they are quite specific concerning the front knee and the back shoulder. IOW, any intelligent individual should reason that means it is the lower armpit and higher knee when the batter takes position adjacent to the plate.

BTW, it used to be bigger as the strike zone used to INCLUDE the knees and shoulders. And as many have explained for years that if the umpires called the actual strike zone, you would go ballistic. That is why the umpires are directed to bring it down a little, but spread it out a little bit. This gives the batter more hittable pitches and the pitcher the same area in which to get a strike.

I'm not asking to call the real strike zone. I'm asking to more reasonably define the strike zone so the variance I see in interpretation from umpire to umpire is less. That maybe chasing unicorns, because even with a better definition there could be the same amount of variation. IMO MLB's is closer to what gets called now, and lacking access to the "supplemental" training that wade is referencing I'm left to wonder how many umpires have been told to call belt to knees because there seems to be an entire segment of umpires that don't believe a ball just above the belt line is a strike.