Committed as a Sophmore?

[3Bsnag]

I don't think you fully grasped the concept, but Gone in 2.6 explained it best.

Dallas didn't just decide she wanted to go to ASU and was hoping they would take her. Although not "formally" recruited, ASU had made it known that they really wanted her, in the form of an offer, and have been keeping up with her for some time. Despite some variables, she has already "made the squad".

BTW, she is not nearly the first 2010 grad to verbal this year.

Good luck to your DD, can't wait to watch the Bruins in 2014!

[Blind Squirrel]

Look, the reality is that the rules are easily and routinely circumvented. Last summer, had a college coach tell my kid's TB coach between games what their offer was (she was about to be a junior). Asked my kid's coach to relay the offer to us ASAP and let him know what the reponse was. He got his response in about 10 minutes. College coaches can't/don't contact kids? Not even close. College coaches simply use travel ball coaches/managers as intermediaries and it is actually quite efficient. Another example: Parents of youngers can't walk up and start talking to a college coach. At a tournament, my wife was standing 20 feet away from the coach of a college my kid was interested in so she called her and talked with her on her cell phone. Everyone there who knew what was going on laughed at the absurdity of the situation.

As for verbals, there is obviously a trust factor on both ends. Once my kid verballed, she never considered going anywhere else. We immediately called or emailed all interested schools thanking them for their interest and letting them know that a decision had been made. BTW, all but one was extremely gracious and wished her well. Since verballing there has not been one second of talk about any subsequent offers or interest. We spent enough time with the coaches at the school to feel that they truly wanted my kid to play for them, that they have integrity and the verbal offer will become reality. Maybe we're being naive. Time will tell.

BTW I do know of a case where a kid's verbal offer was cut in half just before signing but that is unusual from what I've heard.

John

[DDsNbr1Fan]

I don't think you fully grasped the concept, but Gone in 2.6 explained it best.

Dallas didn't just decide she wanted to go to ASU and was hoping they would take her. Although not "formally" recruited, ASU had made it known that they really wanted her, in the form of an offer, and have been keeping up with her for some time. Despite some variables, she has already "made the squad".

BTW, she is not nearly the first 2010 grad to verbal this year.

Good luck to your DD, can't wait to watch the Bruins in 2014!

I understand the concept. With me being a newbie with this recruiting stuff, I just figured everyone was playing by the rules. Don't get me wrong as this has absolutely nothing to do with Dallas the player as no doubt she is a talented player, but would not an "offer" from ASU constitute a violation of set rules?

I picked up Cathi Aradi's recruiting book and it states the following...
1-Coaches at Div. I and II NCAA member colleges may not contact prospective recruits before the players start their junior year in high school.
2- Div I coaches may not contact you in person off campus or by phone until July 1 following your junior year. Parents and players need to understand that saying anything more than "hello" constitutes a "contact" or meeting.
(not sure what the actual NCAA rules states)

Bottom line is I am just trying to find out how the system really works and start to do what is best for my two DDs...and if bending the rules is the norm...I guess so be it and off I go!

Thanks for the input.

[3Bsnag]

My "not grasping" comment came out sounding awful. I really didn't mean it that way at all. I could see your question and just didn't think the posts were really answering your question. Sorry for the word choice there.

I see your point about an offer violating the rules. I guess we see what's written, and look for ways to abide, but still get what we all want. I'm assuming they were written to protect 13, 14, 15 year old kids from being bombarded by adults saying "sign here". However, when colleges are keeping up with 8th graders, people are scared they'll miss out on that offer.

And don't think your 12 year old isn't being watched to some degree. I got a letter from the college that my DD went to their summer camp last year. Not just the normal, thanks for coming- we'd love to have you back. A very detailed letter summarizing what events she won, what she would get out of it this year, some of it personal, etc. She's in 7th grade. Somebody down there has incredible record keeping skills.

[TulsaEliteGold]

In "MOST" cases with early verbals a good travel coach usually plays a huge role in being the mediator of communication. Remember the rules say the college coach cannot send email or mail to the the student athlete or parent until Sept 1 of Jr year (other then a basic form letter explaining the rules) & cannot "initiate" live contact (phone, in person, etc) with the student athlete or parent until July 1 following their Jr year, but the college coach can call the travel coach all they want and express interest in the kid and ask all about them, even ask to arrainge an unofficial visit (this happens all the time). If the kid is on campus on an "Unofficial" visit the coach can talk to the kid and parent and answer all their questions and even make an unofficial offer or "verbal commitment" to the kid.

Also remember the rules are all set up to limit the college coaches from initiating the contact, but there are far fewer rules preventing the student athlete or travel coach from initiating the contact.

[TXfastpitchsoftball]

In "MOST" cases with early verbals a good travel coach usually plays a huge role in being the mediator of communication. Remember the rules say the college coach cannot send email or mail to the the student athlete or parent until Sept 1 of Jr year (other then a basic form letter explaining the rules) & cannot "initiate" live contact (phone, in person, etc) with the student athlete or parent until July 1 following their Jr year, but the college coach can call the travel coach all they want and express interest in the kid and ask all about them, even ask to arrainge an unofficial visit (this happens all the time). If the kid is on campus on an "Unofficial" visit the coach can talk to the kid and parent and answer all their questions and even make an unofficial offer or "verbal commitment" to the kid.

Also remember the rules are all set up to limit the college coaches from initiating the contact, but there are far fewer rules preventing the student athlete or travel coach from initiating the contact.

I hear this all the time, but after exensive efforts to Google how many sophomore and juniors before July 1 "verbal" with a school, I can't confirm more than a handful of the nation's elite players at Top 10 schools. How often does this early verbal actually take place, and how often does it take place for schools outside the Top 25?

[ssarge]

In terms of frequency:

Sophomores verbaling is relatively rare. Maybe 20-30 across the country who have accepted a significant verbal scholarship offer. Total guess, but in that neighborhood.

Juniors are very common. On some of the elite gold teams - at least some years - all of the juniors have verballed / committed by the end of their junior year. And those who haven't may be waiting on a school such as an Ivy or Stanford where admission approval is a requirement for being on an athletic team. Essentially, they are done, but waiting on the process.

Definitely more common with the bigger schools, but increasingly prevalent in the mid-major D1s as well. Less so in D2.


The process is completely legal - in most cases, anyway. Any potential athlete can take an unofficial visit (initiated by them, although as indicated above, it could be suggested by the college coach through a proxy), and while on campus, any subject - including money can be discussed. THis is the start of the early-commitment process in most cases. The subject can also be discussed through an intermediary, such as a TB coach. Off-campus, if the college coach and player meet, they are basically allowed to exchange pleasantries and say "hello," but no substantive discussion can occur.


The process actually has a fairly solid level of associated integrity. Coaches backing out on a verbal commitment run a serious risk of losing credibility with any future recruits, and they certainly don't want - can't afford - that. A coach resigning or being fired is a risk, because the commitment is between the coach and player, and is not endorsed by the university. Some coaches record the commitment in an eMail, which may be reassuring, but it doesn't make it binding. And of course, nothing other than integrity binds the player. Probably a good idea to ask for this, just so that the terms of the financial offer are spelled out, and there is no confusion / disappointment later.

Regards,

Scott

[Sam]

Oh....and the verbal you accept as a sophomore or junior is worth exactly squat if the coach loses his/her job....in that case....if the new coach doesn't want her, your kid is now put back onto the market after all the money is burned by the vast majority of schools.

[Blind Squirrel]

In "MOST" cases with early verbals a good travel coach usually plays a huge role in being the mediator of communication. Remember the rules say the college coach cannot send email or mail to the the student athlete or parent until Sept 1 of Jr year (other then a basic form letter explaining the rules) & cannot "initiate" live contact (phone, in person, etc) with the student athlete or parent until July 1 following their Jr year, but the college coach can call the travel coach all they want and express interest in the kid and ask all about them, even ask to arrainge an unofficial visit (this happens all the time). If the kid is on campus on an "Unofficial" visit the coach can talk to the kid and parent and answer all their questions and even make an unofficial offer or "verbal commitment" to the kid.

Also remember the rules are all set up to limit the college coaches from initiating the contact, but there are far fewer rules preventing the student athlete or travel coach from initiating the contact.

I hear this all the time, but after exensive efforts to Google how many sophomore and juniors before July 1 "verbal" with a school, I can't confirm more than a handful of the nation's elite players at Top 10 schools. How often does this early verbal actually take place, and how often does it take place for schools outside the Top 25?

I know of kids who verballed to schools I've never heard of, including one that is within 50 miles of where I live. My kid verballed before her junior year to a team that is currently not in the top 25. If/When a kid verbals is often a function of the type of schools that are making the offers. It can get to a point where if a kid doesn't commit the offers go elsewhere. To kids who want to play for a competetive program, that is important. My kid wanted to play in a particular conference. Some kids know where they want to go and are happy to accept an offer from the school as soon as it is made. It may not be a top softball program but they couldn't care less. Good for them. From the coaches prospective, they know their competitors are trying to get commitments from the best kids they can find as early as possible so they either do the same or risk compromising their career prospects. In my view it has gotten completely out of hand and is getting worse. Sixteen year olds are being forced to choose which college they will attend, which of course means consideration of what types of things they will be interested in studying. The major I got a degree in was about the last one I would have guessed when I was sixteen. I also feel for the college coaches. How would you like to have your job performance based, to some extent, on your ability to assess how well a 16 year old kid will play when they are college age?

So to answer your question, it is not uncommon, at least in SoCal. I believe there are at least a couple of other folks who post here whose kids have verballed to big name schools. I suspect there are others here in this small subset of the softball parents population that I don't know about, whose kids have verballed.

Scott, I just read your post and I, with the greatest respect, disagree with your numbers on kids who verbal. We talked with schools across this country who wanted to make offers to my kid before she started her junior year. That suggests to me that the number is greater than 20 or 30, especially since my kid was never even on the radar of Arizona or UCLA. On top of that, she is a measly outfielder. Verballing is more prevalent than folks think. Consider how many schools are already out of 2009 money and some who are already out of 2010 money. Figure 3 scholarships per school per year.

And Sam, your comment about the verbal being worth poo if the coach leaves is absolutely right. We spent a fair amount of time speaking with the coaches about this very thing and were satisfied that they would still be there when the time came. Of course if the kid is good enough to get an offer from one coach, it certainly may be the case that the new coach will be unable to find any comparably skilled unsigned player in the same graduating class 1 or 2 years later.

John

[TXfastpitchsoftball]

I have done a fair amount of research on this issue, including examining the websites of most of the top colleges and top travel teams in California, Arizona, Texas, Illinois, Florida, Virginia, Georgia, etc. Most of these teams are QUICK to post when a kid verbals or commits. I also have read almost everything written on commitments and verbals on all the major softball forums and news sources. I've talked personally to dozens and dozen of college coaches and I just think this verballing during your sophomore year is not nearly as prevelant as everyone is willing to accept. I agree that the Top 25 programs are recruiting earlier and earlier, and coaches seriously start tracking their next recruits during the sophomore's fall showcase season, but I still see lots and lots and lots of commitments in the fall of the Junior year to Top 25 programs and rarely ever see the post of the verbal as a sophomore. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, because it most certainly does, but I think SSarge's number is closer to reality.