Earned Runs or Not?

[Cannonball]

Here is the scenerio. Runners on 1st and 2nd. One out. Hitter bunts the ball back to pitcher. Pitcher fields the ball and throws to 2b covering 1st. Good throw but 2B drops the ball. Ruled error in the book. Still, 1 out. Next hitter hits a double driving in 3 runs. However, hitter misses 1st base. (I don't know if you ever see the play where teams teach runners to cut the base off short since in 2 man crews, no one is watching 1st most of the time. However, it is so extreme that both umps see it. Team in the field throws the ball to 1st and runner is called out. What is the decision on those runs? Are they earned or not?

BTW, this play rounding short to next base happens in some areas a lot at 3rd. I've never seen it in person before at 1st although I've been told people teach it to slower runners.

[Martin]

R1 is unearned (reached on error). R2 and R3 were earned (would have scored from 1st and 2nd on the hit).

[Cannonball]

Martin, does it matter that when the girl missed 1st, that should have been the 3rd out and not the second and so, none of those runs would have counted?

This is a real scenerio but I've never seen it before and so, that is why I've posted it. Martin thanks for the response. Not many wanting to weigh in on this one.

[BeyondTheScoreBoard]

Martin, does it matter that when the girl missed 1st, that should have been the 3rd out and not the second and so, none of those runs would have counted?

This is a real scenerio but I've never seen it before and so, that is why I've posted it. Martin thanks for the response. Not many wanting to weigh in on this one.

I will jump in. Martin is correct in his assesment.

When the batter rounded first and didn't touch first, the batter/runner is considered to have touched first unless correctly appealed. The throw to first was actually an appeal, not a force out. This is now a timing play on the runs scoring. The runs are earned. The only time the runs are unearned is when the defense blows an opportunity to put a runner out. That is why the first two to make it home are earned and the third one isn't. It wasn't the pitchers fault that the runner was on first. But, it was her fault that the hitter roped one for a double to drive the runs in.

[Martin]

I agree with BeyondTSB. Earned runs are based on a simple rule: reconstruct the inning based on what "should" have happened and any runs that score are earned.

With the error that loaded the bases, what "should" have happened is the 2nd out of the inning, runners remain at 1st and 2nd. When the batter hit her long fly ball, she clearly would have reached 1st Base. Both runners "should have" scored, thus both runs are earned.

[Cannonball]

Thanks! I appreciate the responses. One statement caught me but I do understand the argument. That was on the process of the appeal and the phrase "correctly appealed." In our case, the ball was never dead and so, the ball went straight to first. There wasn't a "step off." Of couse, I didn't consider this an appeal since it was so apparent that the girl cut off from 1st. I guess that is why I didn't think any of the runs were earned. I didn't consider than an appeal. I would have gotten this one wrong.

[FPdaddy]

Had there been 2 outs when the error occured THEN the runs would be unearned. Otherwise the posters above answered this interesting situation very well.

Keith