Are 12U Houston teams too watered down ?

[Let's Play Two]

So the coaches from the younger teams in these orgs don't know what they're doing and none of these orgs send their coaches to clinics? That's what you're saying?

Good point JW.

Let me do a little explaining here. Lol! My Bad...The big orgs. recruit the lower level teams that are pretty good and have good talent on them. For the most part this is the better coaching in the lower levels. I have seen 14U, 12U, 10U Glory's, Batbusters, Fusion, Adkins and yes in most cases they do have good coaching. Not sure if all are Gold level coaches but they are pretty good coaches.

The comment was directed at the overall lower level coaches through rec and select. Those mainly that do not belong to a successful org. Thanks for making me clear that up. My point is that the coaches at the higher level should hold clinincs so that the overall lower levels can attend. I'm sure some of these orgs holds annual meetings or quarterly meetings of some sort to learn from each other don't they? I'm sure learning never stops?

JMHO from what I see. I'm there is other thoughts out there.

[Joe]

I keep reading "looking for players" posts within the 12U Houston ranks. Is the top talent spread out over too many teams? Some of the "Top dogs" are looking for starters?? Others looking to fill the rosters??? What gives

Clearly, there are too many kids playing 12U in Houston. All the scrubs should be turned away...

[Lunatic Fringe]

If you have the money and the time, you have yourself a team.

If you have the money and a team you can buy yourself into an "organization" Sometimes just with a team

As long as there are mommies and daddies who have money and time to indulge their dreams of D1 glory for their DD you are going to have people forming teams raking the thin talent pool even thinner.

The only way I can see to control the number of teams is for the local park districts that control the fields to care about the quality of play vs the quantity of play. Even with that being said, mommy and daddy will get themselves elected to the board of directors to influence who gets a team on those particualr fields or not. In this case all you need is time.

Good luck storming the castle

[slaphitter]

It's not just a matter of letting kids play, It is also a very serious safety issue. Just this year I have seen young teams playing select tournments that would have a hard time finishing last in league play. These young girls, alot of them pitchers without mask, lobbing the ball over the plate at 35 to 40 mph to a 2nd year 12 on a top rated team. This is a scene just waiting for a diaster to happen.

What ever some of you think or say we need to think about the safety of these kids.

If they want to play travel ball then some guidelines need to be set up so they will play in tournments against teams with their same skill levels and coaches that know what their doing instead of dads that have no idea but started their own team because dd's skill levels did not allow her to make a real select team.

Or play league. Get them hitting, fielding and pitching instructors. It is a great place for dd's to develope their skills until they are such that they can play on or against good select teams.

[Joe]

It's not just a matter of letting kids play, It is also a very serious safety issue. Just this year I have seen young teams playing select tournments that would have a hard time finishing last in league play. These young girls, alot of them pitchers without mask, lobbing the ball over the plate at 35 to 40 mph to a 2nd year 12 on a top rated team. This is a scene just waiting for a diaster to happen.

What ever some of you think or say we need to think about the safety of these kids.

If they want to play travel ball then some guidelines need to be set up so they will play in tournments against teams with their same skill levels and coaches that know what their doing instead of dads that have no idea but started their own team because dd's skill levels did not allow her to make a real select team.

Or play league. Get them hitting, fielding and pitching instructors. It is a great place for dd's to develope their skills until they are such that they can play on or against good select teams.

Why would a top tier 12U team play in such a tournament? Seems to me your "top" team might be trophy hunting...

[slaphitter]

It's not just a matter of letting kids play, It is also a very serious safety issue. Just this year I have seen young teams playing select tournments that would have a hard time finishing last in league play. These young girls, alot of them pitchers without mask, lobbing the ball over the plate at 35 to 40 mph to a 2nd year 12 on a top rated team. This is a scene just waiting for a diaster to happen.

What ever some of you think or say we need to think about the safety of these kids.

If they want to play travel ball then some guidelines need to be set up so they will play in tournments against teams with their same skill levels and coaches that know what their doing instead of dads that have no idea but started their own team because dd's skill levels did not allow her to make a real select team.

Or play league. Get them hitting, fielding and pitching instructors. It is a great place for dd's to develope their skills until they are such that they can play on or against good select teams.

Why would a top tier 12U team play in such a tournament? Seems to me your "top" team might be trophy hunting...

Joe, it's not the 12u top team playing in a lower tournment it is the td's sometimes letting these other teams in good tournments to either fill out the brackets are just get the money or really not knowing what caliper of team they are letting in. I have seen these type league teams in almost every tournment.

Most of the top 12u teams will actually play up to 14u, and do well, to get the competition. They are interested in getting prepared for nationals, not trophies.

[NachoDaddy]

It's not just a matter of letting kids play, It is also a very serious safety issue. Just this year I have seen young teams playing select tournments that would have a hard time finishing last in league play. These young girls, alot of them pitchers without mask, lobbing the ball over the plate at 35 to 40 mph to a 2nd year 12 on a top rated team. This is a scene just waiting for a diaster to happen.

What ever some of you think or say we need to think about the safety of these kids.

If they want to play travel ball then some guidelines need to be set up so they will play in tournments against teams with their same skill levels and coaches that know what their doing instead of dads that have no idea but started their own team because dd's skill levels did not allow her to make a real select team.

Or play league. Get them hitting, fielding and pitching instructors. It is a great place for dd's to develope their skills until they are such that they can play on or against good select teams.

Why would a top tier 12U team play in such a tournament? Seems to me your "top" team might be trophy hunting...

Joe, it's not the 12u top team playing in a lower tournment it is the td's sometimes letting these other teams in good tournments to either fill out the brackets are just get the money or really not knowing what caliper of team they are letting in. I have seen these type league teams in almost every tournment.

Most of the top 12u teams will actually play up to 14u, and do well, to get the competition. They are interested in getting prepared for nationals, not trophies.

Here is the problem as I see it. There are too many teams playing up. What good does it do to play up to the next age group, if all you do is end up playing your same age group teams that are also playing up? This is happening in all age groups, 12's playing 14u, 14's playing 16u and so on. I believe only the top 2 or maybe 3 teams should play up, if your team wins most of the tourneys they enter, then yes, you should move up an age group to get better. But too many teams that haven't even won a single tournament in the past year (if ever) are playing up. Now, with all these teams moving up that shouldn't, it only makes it worse, because now even the middle of the road teams are playing up, because unless you want to play the lower end teams in your age group or a younger team playing up, you yourself must play up. This is a vicious cycle.

[Joe]

Slappy and Nacho...both have a pretty good grasp of the problem and some good solutions that may solve some of the problems.

Way..way...back in the day...some smart dude with an ASA hat on came up with a novel idea...a classification system! Now don't get me wrong...there's simply no system that's prefect, but if someone would start enforcing an already existing classification system...most of the 'competition' problems would go away. Used to be in DFW, there was a pretty good classification system in place for local teams. Problem was.... a team or two would drive in, unclassified, and clean everyone's clock playing 'B' ball. Folks got their panties all wadded up and the local honchos dropped the system all together. The system now is basically a free for all, left up to TDs to sort out.

And don't even start with any horsesh#t about TDs making a bunch of coin on these tourneys. The ones making any $$$ are the ones who know how to run a decent tournament and we should thank them for the $8 per hour they're ready and willing to accept.

As for anyone who complains about watered down teams...they've got to be newbies to the game and youth sports. Excusing coaches and parents for their lack of effort in teaching kids how to play a game and then turn around and whine because there isn't enough talent around so you can cherry pick your players to field a decent team? Puleeze...

The short-sighted complain while the focus should be on flooding the sport with all kinds of new players from all walks of life...poor, wealthy, white, black, brown, young and old. Ten years ago fields were full of kids, leagues were scrambling to find practice and game fields, softball was an up and coming game that kids and their parents were excited about.

Today? Teams are too watered down...? Really?

[taking2]

I really wish there was a classification system. It would solve the "playing up" problem. Soccer does it, why can't softball?

VTD looks like they are trying to create / enforce a system for 10u and 12u. The only problem is that the majority of the tournaments are posted as 'open'.

Until "A" tournaments start to make, the "A" teams are left to play up or play opens.

In Texas, friendlies are gaining popularity. It is becoming the best way for the skilled teams to get back to back competitive games.

[MavFan]

While the classification system would be better, I think getting teams to play at their own age group would be an easier way to get it under control, then, in time, incorporate the classification system.

Look at the Ronald McDonald, they strictly enforce the no playing up rule, and the tournament fills up quickly. Are there teams there that are weaker than the top dogs would like? Heck yes, but at least they are all the same age group.