Clever Trick Play or Sleazy?

[Martin]

Agreed. That's pretty simple.

Why don't we expect the batter or either of her base coaches on the field to do the same?

[wadeintothem]

Agreed. That's pretty simple.

Why don't we expect the batter or either of her base coaches on the field to do the same?

Well if they forget, I remind them too... and bring the batter back to the box. I'm equal opportunity in my reminders.

[Martin]

Ok, now we're getting to the point that I'm interested in (and one that Sam made in an earlier thread on a similar topic).

If the PU will/should remind the batter when they forget the count and the batter trots off to first base after Ball 3, why is the batter not immediately advised of her mistake and given a warning to promptly reenter the box, just like the PU would warn a batter who stepped out for an excessive length to receive signs from her 3B coach?

[wadeintothem]

Ok, now we're getting to the point that I'm interested in (and one that Sam made in an earlier thread on a similar topic).

If the PU will/should remind the batter when they forget the count and the batter trots off to first base after Ball 3, why is the batter not immediately advised of her mistake and given a warning to promptly reenter the box, just like the PU would warn a batter who stepped out for an excessive length to receive signs from her 3B coach?

I do. If she refused to get back in the box (like insisted on staying on 1st) then there are penalties to be enforced.

I've never seen it come to that, they usually trot back to the box... mission complete.

[jofus]

But if one of the runners did in fact hesitate and then continue to 3rd, and the pitcher had the ball in the circle, and wasn't "making a play", then she would indeed be out, in ASA or anything else, correct?

[2bucketdad]

Instead of complaining of it being bush league, why not just teach your catcher and or pitcher to throw to third and take the gift out?

[wadeintothem]

But if one of the runners did in fact hesitate and then continue to 3rd, and the pitcher had the ball in the circle, and wasn't "making a play", then she would indeed be out, in ASA or anything else, correct?

nope.. they can stop once.. then proceed. No out in ASA. Dunno about NSA.

[noclu13]

Wade

The mistake you are making is that we don't have to just keep track of the four but there is a whole other set of numbers we have to keep track of that goes up to three. I need both hands for this and sometimes get confused.

[umpinva]

This is a "trick" play tried against us and I'll tell you off the bat I feel it has no place in the game.

Opposing team is at bat. Runners on first and second. The opposing coach signaled to the batter to go to first base after the third ball was called, which she did. The plate ump immediately holds up three fingers to signal there are only three balls called. I'm keeping the scorebook, and I'm calling out the same thing. Meanwhile the runners advance to the next base, BUT - the runner on second jogs halfway to third, stops, then proceeds to third. The batter is called back to the plate by the plate ump. Then the opposing coach claims that the runners on 1st and 2nd were stealing and should advance. He admitted it was a called play.

We first protest that the runner on second hesitated and so should be called out. The umpires confer. They can't decide what to do, so they call for the state association director who is present. As we wait for her to arrive, the base ump walks over to our dugout and says that if the opposing coach pulls that in nationals (this is an NSA tournament), the coach will probably be thrown out.

The state director shows up and confers with the coaches and umps. Her decision is that the runner on second is out because she hesitated, and the runner on first can advance to second (which sounds like a compromise decision to me). Then she tells the opposing coach that if he tries to pull this at the state tournament, she'll throw him out. While this conversation is going on, the asst. coach on 1st base tells me that they've been using this play all year. I politely keep my opinion to myself.

So, you sages of softball - what are your opinions?

As the PU: As soon as the batter begins heading for first base I'm yelling that's ball three, batter back in the box. If the ball has been returned to F1 and the runner(s) are off their base when there's no play being made, I'm banging an out on the LBR. If both runners are off their base, I'm banging the runner closest to home out.

Trick plays are great; sometimes those attempting to be tricked get treated.

The State Director's ruling was wrong. If she was going to enforce the runner at second was out for hesitating (LBR) then the ball is dead, the runner at second is out and the runner at first returns to first base and the batter is back to bat with the correct count.

[NoNothin]

Its all in the execution. If R1 and R2 would have had a lead off when BR1 took off for 1st and BR1 would have taken an extra step or two when PU called her back then promptly returned as directed. Followed by R1 and R2 jogging toward the next base (as they would when there is a walk) instead of stopping (hesitating) once the ball is thrown back to F1 then 9 times out of 10 in 12U the defense will not throw to third or at least not throw until it is too late. I am trying to understand what is sleazy about this when done correctly?? If a third baseman fields a ground ball and fakes a throw to first to draw a runner off of third so she can tag her that is a form of a trick play....is that sleazy? No, that is just aggressive softball. I get tired of people that get all bent out of shape and run to the rule book or the message board for sympathy when they have been dooped by someone that is obviously more aware than they are. I honestly don't mean to bash anyone, this is just my humble worthless opinion.

NoNo