Bunted ball, Runner gets hit in back with ball....called Out

[afastpitchfanatic]

I've read about this in a HB post before, but cannot find the correct thread for reference now that I'm looking for it.

This is the scenario: Batter bunts the ball, runs to 1st. There are no base lines, as it has been raining all day. The catcher throws the ball and it hits the runner in the back. The runner is called out. Umpire says the runner interfered by being too far inside the baseline.

How far is too far? The runner took the same running path as she has everytime before...nothing out of the ordinary whatsoever. She obviously couldn't see the ball coming and in no way tried to interfere in the defense's attempt to make the play. As I stated before, there weren't even base lines as guides. For argument's sake, let's say she were a few inches inside the baseline or a foot of it at the very most. (even though she appeared to be right on the "imaginary" line to me) How far is too far and should she have been called out??

[artomatic]

I'm pretty sure the umps on here can explain it in umpire legaleze, but I think:
If she was running to 1st, and she was on the fair side of the baseline, imaginary or not, and a thrown ball hits her, she can be called out.

[MTR]

I've read about this in a HB post before, but cannot find the correct thread for reference now that I'm looking for it.

This is the scenario: Batter bunts the ball, runs to 1st. There are no base lines, as it has been raining all day. The catcher throws the ball and it hits the runner in the back. The runner is called out. Umpire says the runner interfered by being too far inside the baseline.

How far is too far? The runner took the same running path as she has everytime before...nothing out of the ordinary whatsoever. She obviously couldn't see the ball coming and in no way tried to interfere in the defense's attempt to make the play. As I stated before, there weren't even base lines as guides. For argument's sake, let's say she were a few inches inside the baseline or a foot of it at the very most. (even though she appeared to be right on the "imaginary" line to me) How far is too far and should she have been called out??

Speaking ASA (and probably every other stick, ball & base game)

The BR can run anywhere they please. However, to avoid being called out for interfering with a defender receiving a throw at 1B, the runner may run in the 3' lane that is in effect the last half of the distance to 1B.

If, in the umpire's judgment, the runner does prevent the defender from receiving a throw at 1B, it is a form of INT and the BR is ruled out and all runners return to the last base occupied at the time of the INT.

BTW, the rule and its effect is still in place whether the lines are on the ground or not.

[HugoTafurst]

I've read about this in a HB post before, but cannot find the correct thread for reference now that I'm looking for it.

This is the scenario: Batter bunts the ball, runs to 1st. There are no base lines, as it has been raining all day. The catcher throws the ball and it hits the runner in the back. The runner is called out. Umpire says the runner interfered by being too far inside the baseline.

How far is too far? The runner took the same running path as she has everytime before...nothing out of the ordinary whatsoever. She obviously couldn't see the ball coming and in no way tried to interfere in the defense's attempt to make the play. As I stated before, there weren't even base lines as guides. For argument's sake, let's say she were a few inches inside the baseline or a foot of it at the very most. (even though she appeared to be right on the "imaginary" line to me) How far is too far and should she have been called out??

One foot on the ground completely in fair territory is all it takes... can be 1/10th of an inch AND it is the umpires judgement.
It doesn't matter what path the BR took previously, it is only a violation if the BR interferes with F3 taking the throw at first.
If indeed she was out f the lane the other times, she probably didn't interfere.
Intent is not part of the rule. If she is out of the lane and interferes, she is out.

Now, in the case of a BR going to first base, the umpire Plate umpre hase two jobs...
1) Judge a running lane vioalation and

2) Judge a pulled foot.

The umpire was (should have been) trailing the BR up the first base line.
So Where were you?

In the case of missing lines, the umpire has to use his best judgement.

[afastpitchfanatic]

MTR wrote:

The BR can run anywhere they please. However, to avoid being called out for interfering with a defender receiving a throw at 1B, the runner may run in the 3' lane that is in effect the last half of the distance to 1B.

HugoTafurst wrote:

One foot on the ground completely in fair territory is all it takes... can be 1/10th of an inch AND it is the umpires judgement.
It doesn't matter what path the BR took previously, it is only a violation if the BR interferes with F3 taking the throw at first.
If indeed she was out f the lane the other times, she probably didn't interfere.
Intent is not part of the rule. If she is out of the lane and interferes, she is out.

Now, in the case of a BR going to first base, the umpire Plate umpre hase two jobs...
1) Judge a running lane vioalation and

2) Judge a pulled foot.

The umpire was (should have been) trailing the BR up the first base line.
So Where were you?

So, if she is within the 3 foot lane (18 inches to either side of the baseline), it is NOT interference?? Or, if she is to the fair side of the baseline whatsoever (even if within the 18 inches), she can be called out for interference??

To answer HugoTafurst's question, I was sitting on the 3rd base line side (observer territory, of course), about 5-6 feet to the left of where the umpire was. The umpire didn't trail up the baseline.
Of course I realize that lane rules, etc are in effect when the baselines have disappeared. I was just giving the circumstance.....and thinking that the call was subjective to the umps opinion of where the baseline was. Internally wondering if the benefit of the doubt should be given to the runner or the defense?
There's absolutely NO WAY our runner was more than 18 inches on the fair side. She looked to be on it or to the foul side a little, in my opinion. She ran staight over her designated bag with no corrective or diagonal motion. The umpire only sited the "she was too inside the baseline" reasoning after being asked to explain her call. I don't know if her original call was a knee-jerk reaction and she defended it with the by-the-book explanation, or if she TRULY thought there was obstruction. I just want to know the specifications of this rule for the future.

This was in an international tie breaker situation with the called out runner being our 3rd out. Top of the line up was coming up. We had already got one run in. So we were up one, but no chance to gain any more runs. Ouch!! (Yes, we lost and took 3rd place.) A win would've taken us to the championship game.

[SnocatzDad]

So, if she is within the 3 foot lane (18 inches to either side of the baseline), it is NOT interference?? Or, if she is to the fair side of the baseline whatsoever (even if within the 18 inches), she can be called out for interference??

There is no three foot running lane on the fair side of the foul line, only on the foul side of the foul line.

[afastpitchfanatic]

That clarifies so much! Thank you! I feel a lot better about the call knowing that.

[tcannizzo]

3-foot running lane protects BR from INT by getting hit in the back.
However, if in the umpire's judgement there was intentional INT, then she will be called OUT.
This would usually be indicated by BR knowing/guessing where the ball was and making a deliberate attempt to interfere with the throw.

[why not?]

Is the same rule in effect on a ball thrown from 1st to home?

[HugoTafurst]

MTR wrote:

The BR can run anywhere they please. However, to avoid being called out for interfering with a defender receiving a throw at 1B, the runner may run in the 3' lane that is in effect the last half of the distance to 1B.

HugoTafurst wrote:

One foot on the ground completely in fair territory is all it takes... can be 1/10th of an inch AND it is the umpires judgement.
It doesn't matter what path the BR took previously, it is only a violation if the BR interferes with F3 taking the throw at first.
If indeed she was out f the lane the other times, she probably didn't interfere.
Intent is not part of the rule. If she is out of the lane and interferes, she is out.

Now, in the case of a BR going to first base, the umpire Plate umpre hase two jobs...
1) Judge a running lane vioalation and

2) Judge a pulled foot.

The umpire was (should have been) trailing the BR up the first base line.
So Where were you?

So, if she is within the 3 foot lane (18 inches to either side of the baseline), it is NOT interference?? Or, if she is to the fair side of the baseline whatsoever (even if within the 18 inches), she can be called out for interference??

To answer HugoTafurst's question, I was sitting on the 3rd base line side (observer territory, of course), about 5-6 feet to the left of where the umpire was. The umpire didn't trail up the baseline.
Of course I realize that lane rules, etc are in effect when the baselines have disappeared. I was just giving the circumstance.....and thinking that the call was subjective to the umps opinion of where the baseline was. Internally wondering if the benefit of the doubt should be given to the runner or the defense?
There's absolutely NO WAY our runner was more than 18 inches on the fair side. She looked to be on it or to the foul side a little, in my opinion. She ran staight over her designated bag with no corrective or diagonal motion. The umpire only sited the "she was too inside the baseline" reasoning after being asked to explain her call. I don't know if her original call was a knee-jerk reaction and she defended it with the by-the-book explanation, or if she TRULY thought there was obstruction. I just want to know the specifications of this rule for the future.

This was in an international tie breaker situation with the called out runner being our 3rd out. Top of the line up was coming up. We had already got one run in. So we were up one, but no chance to gain any more runs. Ouch!! (Yes, we lost and took 3rd place.) A win would've taken us to the championship game.

Before we get carried away....
Where are you getting this 18" stuff from?
And why are you referring to the baseline?