ASA being sued

[ratz19]

Well I am a catchers dad not a pitchers but that said. It appears the wives tale of being able to pitch all the time is a kinnard.

That may have been the case at one point but that was before we played 100 games of TB and then another 40 games of school plus practice etc...

But before we go off half cocked it still seems that though we should limit pitching time it still appears that the underhand motion does allow for significantly more usage than the baseball motion. Where that line is well I dont know....to go off and make rules on what we know now wont get us good rules....it will get knee-jerk reaction curtailing effort beyond what is needed.

We dont wanna be soccer parents......but maybe not football parents either. I've been lucky and unlucky a DD who (knock on wood) has been remarkably injury free and a son who spent his high school yrs in the ER and Dr's office. So I have seen both sides.

At this point in litigation ASA can't put in regulations and if they dont NO ONE ELSE WILL! So I guess in away they still are the big dog.....be careful what we want lest we turn into Little League.

[jonriv]

Ratz- perfectly said- your are far too reasonable to be on the bucket!

[tcannizzo]

Reminds me of the old song: "Mamas, Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up To Be Cowboys"

[fattazzdaddycoach]

A little off topic, but interesting when talking about overuse in pitching...

http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Bas ... rtedW.html

[ontheblack]

A little off topic, but interesting when talking about overuse in pitching...

http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Bas ... rtedW.html

I think that link is very much on topic. Mechanics is the key to the whole discussion, IMO.

Here is an excerpt I believe to be important:

If you look at the pitching mechanics, and in particular the arm actions, of great pitchers -- and by great I mean pitchers who had long, successful, and relatively injury-free careers -- like...

- Randy Johnson (4135.1 innings pitched over 22 years)
- Greg Maddux (5008.1 innings pitched over 23 years)
- Nolan Ryan (5,386 innings pitched over 27 years)
- Tom Seaver (4783 innings pitched over 20 years)

I added innings pitched (sourced from http://www.baseball-reference.com), but this is where the pitch count argument breaks downs.

You can add Gaylord Perry, Bob Gibson and Christy Mathison to that list of pitchers who didnt have the Inverted W mechanics but pitched a ton of innings, threw a lot of pitches, and who had careers that last close to or more than 20 years.

IMHO the biggest problem we have with pitchers is a lack of understanding of proper mechanics. Unlike hitting, where bad mechanics can shorten your career simply because you just cant hit, poor pitching mechanics doesnt always mean poor performance, but the career ends because you have broken down (ex: Mark Pryor).

I spend a lot of time trying to educate Rec parents who have young, budding pitchers. At first I get a lot of resistance and the typical line is "you have never pitched and her coach did", but when I get them to look at studies like the one I cited earlier, most catch on pretty fast and realize they need to get a clue quickly.

[CheckWriter]

Using RJ, who I believe stopped pitching because of his back problems:

4135 innings / 22 years / 7 innings per game (for softball) yields just under 27 games per year. I think most average and above TB pitchers pitch significantly more than that. That doesn't count "practice".

This was after they were "full grown" adults. No growth plates. For his time, elite training and conditioning. With an off season every year.

My guess is that most girls throw more (maybe a lot more) pitches not in games during a week, on average, than a major league pitchers.

This data supports girls pitching less, not justifying what they are doing now.

JMO

PS

it still appears that the underhand motion does allow for significantly more usage than the baseball motion

Myth. The crux of the problem.

[ontheblack]

Checkwriter, those pitchers are the exception, not the rule. My point was that those who did have longer MLB careers also tended to have a different set of mechanics.

I started dialing back the amount of practice time my kids threw a few years ago. We work on proper mechanics, spin, release points, etc, instead of simply having them throw each pitch x number of times, as oldest DD's first pitching coach dictated. They also take extended breaks throughout the year.

Excellent point about the growth plates.

[GIMNEPIWO]

You can look up the court docket since it is a public record. The case was filed In Pro Per, meaning they don't have an attorney. Maybe they took it to a lawyer and were told they had no case, but they decided to file it by themselves.

It should have been filed Non Compos Mentis, meaning "we are not of sound mind."

I thought that was 'brainus fulis crapus' ...

[CheckWriter]

I thought that was 'brainus fulis crapus' ...

Too much Looney Tunes Taxonomy!

[MTR]

Your solution is not workable, Mike. Your solution is to continue destroying young girls' arms.

Holding the parents accountable for the well-being of their offspring is not workable? Well, yeah, I guess the weakness of our generation pretty much killed that. However, it is still the proper course of action.

ASA, NFHS, and everyone else will tell the catcher that they have to wear a mask when they are warming up a pitcher, even on the sidelines. I guess that should be a situation where the parents should be responsible and their shouldn't be a rule also. Where is the line drawn?

No, that rule which added no additional liability to the organizing bodies, was put into place at the demand of the participants, just like the bat standards which, even with the appropriate action, still causes sanctioning bodies and manufacturers nightmares and a hefty legal budget.

Then again, you get these morons out there demanding this and insisting on that or they will take their ball and go home, but when it comes to dealing with it.......

All the BS about the face masks on the batting helmets. THERE HAS TO BE A RULE!!! ASA MUST MAKE THESE MANDATORY FOR THE SAKE OF OUR CHILDREN! Yeah, and the minute ASA did mandate them, all the complaints appeared. "What do you mean I have to use an approved piece of equipment?" "Oh, this one is just as good as the new, its okay if she wears this one, right?" "You are going to enforce that rule?"

At an Eastern NC the year after the rule went into effect, half the teams had to visit locals sporting goods and hardware stores because they were not equiped or the equipment was so poorly installed, the helmet did not pass inspection. We are not talking about some friendly or fund raiser or league play, we are talking about a national tournament!

Again, a case of being careful what you wish for, you just may get it. However, if all these morons would have listened to folks like myself which were preaching parental responsibility and not waiting on someone else to do the job, it would have been a non-issue and the girls would still be wearing the proper equipment.

How about teams playing in the fall, with the exception of Gold, not being insured to play or practice by the organization for that time frame? That would cut the season down to 8 months instead of 12.

Well, I have no problem cutting the season. Too many, WAY TOO MANY, children are playing too much. Some don't even get a life as a child because some carrot-chasing parent has taken a gulp of the Kool Aid that some coach has sold them.

But again, that is still the issue of the parent because even if the majority of the organizations did outlaw the game for 3 months of the year, someone would just pick up the banner and run a league/conference to satisfy those who wanted to continue and the only way to stop that would be how? THE PARENTS not allowing their child to play in such leagues.

Anyone notice the Geico commercial about teaching the 5 yo to dunk in search of a scholarship? The epitome of the carrot-chasers, but cute to most of the folks watching.

Hell, I think I'll vote for Ralph Nader on the Kill Sports Scholarships platform!!