A prayer

[ontheblack]

Widow -

Im a history buff and recovering political junkie, so I am familiar with all that you referenced.

I read Ike's fairwell address when I was a freshman in HS.

Butler is quite the dichotomy. He yearned for combat, lying about his age to get into the Spanish-American War and was quite upset that he couldnt get combat assignments during WWI.

The 80 page rant you referenced was written in the '30s. He railed against profiteering wars (the Banana Wars in the Caribbean, etc), but was not anti-war and would have been among the first to request a combat assignment in WWII given the opportunity.

What is most interesting to me about Butler is his claim (the Business Plot) that he was approached by the Wall Street types he denounced in 1935 to lead a military coup against FDR. Wall Street denied it and his claims were ridiculed, with good reason. I believe he lied, but if he didnt, it defies logic to be asked to lead a coup for the sake of profit when you have lectured publicly against it.

I also find it interesting that the quote he is most famous for was initially published in the socialist rag, "Common Sense". In my book, Smedley Butler had less clarity of though on a position than Jerry Brown.

So I will see your Medal of Honor recipient Smedley Butler and raise you Medal of Honor recipient Alvin York, the most decorated US soldier of WWI, and Medal of Honor recipient Audie Murphy, the most decorated US soldier in history.

York was a pacifist on religious grounds. York only agreed to the movie about him, "Sergeant York" so he could take the money and build a school. Murphy wrote the autobiography "To Hell and Back" (which I also read before I had a drivers license) and was the first well known military guy to bring attention to PTSD. Both of these American heroes would decry war for the sake of profiteering, but would have also probably cold-cocked you for the image you posted.

BTW, Murphy's grave site in Arlington is the 2nd most visited, behind JFK. Butler is an unknown unless you are an anti war type or into American history

There is an interesting Youtube video I have no doubt you have seen with Rumsfield, Patreaus, et al testifying before Congress with flashbacks to Ike's farewell warning/address. I do find that compelling.

I find insulting your attitude, borne out of an ignorance of what many base their faith on, that patriotism and a belief in God equal theocratic nationalism.

Peace and God Bless.

[blackwidow]

I’m a history buff and recovering political junkie, so I am familiar with all that you referenced.

Great, looking forward to your enlightening observations.

I read Ike's farewell address when I was a freshman in HS.

And no comment????

Butler is quite the dichotomy. He yearned for combat, lying about his age to get into the Spanish-American War and was quite upset that he couldn’t get combat assignments during WWI.
The 80-page rant you referenced was written in the '30s. He railed against profiteering wars (the Banana Wars in the Caribbean, etc), but was not anti-war and would have been among the first to request a combat assignment in WWII given the opportunity.

Since I would never presume to speak for any 33 year Military Veteran of our country I’ll let Smedley Butler speak for himself in the following Quote
“I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes, and the other is the Bill of Rights.” -- Excerpt from a speech delivered in 1933

What is most interesting to me about Butler is his claim (the Business Plot) that he was approached by the Wall Street types he denounced in 1935 to lead a military coup against FDR. Wall Street denied it and his claims were ridiculed, with good reason.

The good reason being, Ummmmm because Elite Wall Street Bankers would never do anything to hurt Americans, they are the most honest and upstanding members of society. History shows that these folks only have Americas best interests at heart. Okie dokie can’t argue with that logic.

I believe he lied, but if he didn’t, it defies logic to be asked to lead a coup for the sake of profit when you have lectured publicly against it.

Your beliefs are your opinion however
The McCormack-Dickstein Committee confirmed some of Butler's accusations in its final report. "In the last few weeks of the committee's official life it received evidence showing that certain persons had made an attempt to establish a fascist organization in this country...There is no question that these attempts were discussed, were planned, and might have been placed in execution when and if the financial backers deemed it expedient. You can download PDF files of the Committee hearings here if you really want to research the plot.
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/McCormack ... _the_files

I also find it interesting that the quote he is most famous for was initially published in the socialist rag, "Common Sense". In my book, Smedley Butler had less clarity of though on a position than Jerry Brown.

So your logic is that a War hero and a Military Veteran who served 33 years as a United States Marine is a socialist because of a quote printed somewhere that you don’t like?

So I will see your Medal of Honor recipient Smedley Butler and raise you Medal of Honor recipient Alvin York, the most decorated US soldier of WWI, and Medal of Honor recipient Audie Murphy, the most decorated US soldier in history.

Correction…ONE of the most decorated according to Wikipedia.
Since I’m not interested in devolving into a pissing contest of whose soldier is the most American and since we don’t have bracketologist here to do the rankings I’ll post this interesting yet unscientific link and leave it there.

http://www.veterantributes.org/top20mostdecorated.htm

York was a pacifist on religious grounds. York only agreed to the movie about him, "Sergeant York" so he could take the money and build a school. Murphy wrote the autobiography "To Hell and Back" (which I also read before I had a drivers license) and was the first well-known military guy to bring attention to PTSD.

Awesome. And let’s take a deeper look at Sgt York NYTimes article Nov 11, 1934 titled
SERGEANT YORK HOPES WE WILL AVOID WARS; Armistice Day Finds Him Ready to Fight, but Only in a Defensive Conflict
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive/pd ... 5F408385F9
from Wiki:
York originally believed in the morality of America's intervention in World War I. By the mid-1930s, he looked back more critically: "I can't see that we did any good. There’s as much trouble now as there was when we were over there. I think the slogan 'A war to end war.' is all wrong." He fully endorsed American preparedness, but showed sympathy for isolationism in saying he would fight only if war came to America.

Both of these American heroes would decry war for the sake of profiteering, but would have also probably cold-cocked you for the image you posted.

Again, that is your opinion BUT to me, if they were true Americans who believed in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights they would not have “cold-cocked” me at all. Seems you are reducing these war heroes to the level of Fundamentalist Islamists who issue fatwa’s against folks who publish pictures of Mohammed. I like to think our military are not quite that fundamentalist yet.

BTW, Murphy's gravesite in Arlington is the 2nd most visited, behind JFK. Butler is an unknown unless you are an anti war type or into American history…

I am an anti-war type and also into world history-- guilty as charged. I should be drawn and quartered for such radical views.

There is an interesting Youtube video I have no doubt you have seen with Rumsfield, Patreaus, et al testifying before Congress with flashbacks to Ike's farewell warning/address. I do find that compelling.

Could you link it? Meantime maybe you’ve seen this.
On Cost Plus Defense Contracts=War profiteering
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9D0QMFTdos

I find insulting your attitude, borne out of an ignorance of what many base their faith on, that patriotism and a belief in God equal theocratic nationalism.

Your opinion, again you are entitled to it. That's the great thing about the First Amendment to the US Constitution; isn't it?
I find insulting the attitude also born out of ignorance that I’m unpatriotic because my views about US military occupation of sovereign countries is unconstitutional and against Americans best interests.
Especially in light of the fact that I have clearly shown through my posts and links that preemptive wars, regime changes, and nation building, goes against all the established wisdom of our forefathers.

Peace and God Bless.

To you as well.

[GIMNEPIWO]

AMEN

WhoWouldJesusBomb.jpg

Does anyone that posts here ever read a book? (No, comic books don't count) Or even an article longer that 1 paragraph?

http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance40.html

Turn off your television and read something about the world you live in.

PEACE

You wear a sphincter halo ... But. yes, PEACE

[ontheblack]

Do you believe that Butler, who lectured against profiteering war and fascism in the US, was approached by Wall Street to lead a revolt against FDR?

[blackwidow]

Do you believe that Butler, who lectured against profiteering war and fascism in the US, was approached by Wall Street to lead a revolt against FDR?

OTB..
A fascist coup in the 1930’s when fascism was in fashion wouldn’t be unheard of.

http://rationalrevolution.net/war/ameri ... _europ.htm

MANY American corporations and international bankers supported both Hitler and Mussolini’s idea on how the State should be organized. Why couldn’t it happen here in the U.S?

Even during the time of Jesus (aka the prince of peace), the only “violent” act attributed to Jesus himself was when he chased the corrupt moneychangers from the temple.

So to get back to my ORIGINAL question depicted in the artwork I posted..

Who would Jesus Bomb?

Who would Jesus Torture?
Peace

[blackwidow]

You wear a sphincter halo ... But. yes, PEACE


Why that's mighty Christian.
Here's a little Bill Hicks just for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTX5dTCCOj4

Peace.

[joaquinjunior]

"but when you hear of wars and rumors of wars, do not be troubled; for such things must happen, but the end is not yet. Mark13:7 amen

[Dugout Dad]

AMEN
Turn off your television and read something about the world you live in.

PEACE

So....if it's in print, it is true???...okay

I hope you get a chance to enjoy life, it must be tough looking over your shoulder all the time.

[blackwidow]

JoJr...In your (I guess) Jesus was pro-War bible quote, please read the entire passage which is actually warning to beware of FALSE PROPHETS who would lead into wars in his name. You can find the entire passage here.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=KJV

So I suppose I'll have to answer my own question...WIth Jesus own words.

The Beatitudes
He said:
3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called children of God.
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

11 “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Eye for Eye

38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’[h] 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

Love for Enemies

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[i] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

The Model Prayer
5"And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. 6But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly.


The Radical Jesus by John Whitehead
http://www.rutherford.org/articles_db/c ... ord_id=707

Excerpt from above link:
For those who truly study the life and teachings of Jesus, the resounding theme is one of outright resistance to war, materialism and empire. As Mark Lewis Taylor notes, “The power of Jesus is one that enables us to critique the nation and the empire. Unfortunately, that gospel is being sacrificed and squandered by Christians who have cozied up to power and wealth.” Ultimately, this is the contradiction that must be resolved if the radical Jesus--the one who stood up to the Roman Empire and was crucified as a warning to others not to challenge the powers-that-be--is to be remembered.


Dugout DAD...
No..definitely not everything in print is true. We can agree on that.
I have a terrific family and life and do not "look over my shoulder all the time". I'm not sure what that even means. Could you explain or were you just trying to insult me instead of responding to the message?
That seems to be the popular mode of discussion here when presented with ideas that are outside of the "accepted" paradigm.


I Love America Do You? by Harry Browne
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=11720

PEACE