PLAYING DOWN

[SOFTBALL TAXI]

Is playing down worth it?
I always thought that it was beneficial to play up,I just dont see the
benifit of a 14u team beating a 12u team. Think about it if a 14u team needs to play a 12u team to get better its more than likely not going to benefit a 12u team. So who is it helping?

[upurbox]

I GUESS IT DEPENDS ON HOW GOOD THE 12U TEAMS ARE YOU ARE PLAYING. I'M JUST SAYING IF THE 14U TEAM IS AVERAGE, SOME 12U TEAMS WILL GIVE YOU A GOOD GAME. IF YOU HAVE A REALLY GOOD 14U TEAM,THEN YOU HAVE NO BUSINESS PLAYING DOWN.....JMO

[onedownonetogo]

Not sure why I'm suddenly motivated by this topic; maybe its just the outlet.

The conventional wisdom has always been for players/teams to play "up" at the highest level that they can play and not be embarrased. Maybe it's time we revisited that idea and start playing down in whatever age group or division where your team can finish in the top three teams every weekend. Maybe the pressure to "win" v. the pressure to play "up" is what will push Texas softball to the next level.

There are certainly kids to whom this does not apply, but it's been my experience no one has to recommend anything to this kid and her parents. They just "know" its time to jump to 18u Gold when there little Suzie is a 7th grader, 5' 11", 160lb, and thowing 62 mph. For everyone else, it seems to me that they are just following the herd, playing "up," and perpetuating a huge pool of mediocre teams in each age group.

I know that I see a lot of California teams' entire rosters maxing out the age group at ASA Nationals, and that even includes juniors playing 16u, freshmen playing 14u, and 7th graders playing 12u.

[soreshins]

In most cases it is a mistake for an "A" team in any classification to "play down" in the fall. If you play down and you win the tournament the team has achieved nothing. On the other hand, if you don't win or if you don't even place, it is an embarassment to the team. By playing down, you are in effect telling your team they are not good enough to compete at their own age level. This can cause team morale and parent problems later on.

[Demonboy]

Agree with soreshins

It's a disservice to most teams to do anything less than play their age group as of the coming new year during the fall. Unless you really suck and are in dire need of confidence, playing a bunch of kids 1 to 2 years younger than you right up until your forced to move up on Jan 1 does you no favors.

[coolstuff]

In response to the orginal poster, not only is the 14U probably not going to get better playing a 12U, but how are they going to feel if the 12U team gets a few breaks and beats the 14U team? Pretty crappy, I'd guess.

Here's another take on "playing down." I think it is possible to stay in the same age level but still "play down." I have seen coaches play small tournaments in small towns where the competition is thin (sometimes including all-star rec teams), or pick a tournament on a weekend when the real talent is playing somewhere else, and win the tournament, then go to larger tournaments with real competition and get beat up.

[JustWondering]

Teams playing down should not happen. Also what about the teams that use a couple of players moving up in January to get qualified for the following year. For instance living off of 1 pitcher(95) in 12u and once you lose her, your team just can't compete anymore. Sandbaggers will fall apart once they lose there older players.

[onedownonetogo]

As usual, this thread has been hijacked. I don't think anyone was suggesting that a 14u team should play in a 12u tournament. I think the thread was more about should a 14u team play 14u as long as possible in the fall rather than playing "up" to 16u just because that is what conventional wisdom says you are supposed to do in the fall.

I, for one, can come up with a dozen good things that come come from an very average 14u team playing 14u in the fall rather than moving up early to 16u, including helping to recruit new players, getting 2nd and 3rd pitchers more work where they won't get shallacked, play people in secondary positions, get back some confidence, try to win/place in a tournament when you've been going home on Saturday most weekends during the summer/fall playing "up", have fun, travel out of town to stay in a nice hotel and swim in a pool until midnight, etc.

I just don't understand why EVERYONE on this board thinks their DD is going to play in college and needs to "prepare" against better competition, and that if you aren't trying to "prepare" your kid for college that you are a horrible parent/coach. I've seen more than a few rec teams play "down," everyone gripes, then the team goes 0-4 and everyone laughs at them for getting beat by teams 2-years older. These teams know where they can be competitive. These same teams will be getting beat by teams two years younger in the spring when they are playing in their "new" age group and the younger teams are playing "up" two age groups to find even better competition. . .

and these wonderful younger team who won the Katy Christmas Classic will get run-ruled by the teams in California come August when they are playing in their age group. . . are you going to laugh at them then?

[Demonboy]

As usual, this thread has been hijacked. I don't think anyone was suggesting that a 14u team should play in a 12u tournament. I think the thread was more about should a 14u team play 14u as long as possible in the fall rather than playing "up" to 16u just because that is what conventional wisdom says you are supposed to do in the fall.

I, for one, can come up with a dozen good things that come come from an very average 14u team playing 14u in the fall rather than moving up early to 16u, including helping to recruit new players, getting 2nd and 3rd pitchers more work where they won't get shallacked, play people in secondary positions, get back some confidence, try to win/place in a tournament when you've been going home on Saturday most weekends during the summer/fall playing "up", have fun, travel out of town to stay in a nice hotel and swim in a pool until midnight, etc.

I just don't understand why EVERYONE on this board thinks their DD is going to play in college and needs to "prepare" against better competition, and that if you aren't trying to "prepare" your kid for college that you are a horrible parent/coach. I've seen more than a few rec teams play "down," everyone gripes, then the team goes 0-4 and everyone laughs at them for getting beat by teams 2-years older. These teams know where they can be competitive. These same teams will be getting beat by teams two years younger in the spring when they are playing in their "new" age group and the younger teams are playing "up" two age groups to find even better competition. . .

and these wonderful younger team who won the Katy Christmas Classic will get run-ruled by the teams in California come August when they are playing in their age group. . . are you going to laugh at them then?

With the massive dilution in travel ball today, there are PLENTY of teams that an "average" team can play in there own age group and keep their confidence. If a team of 15 year olds is so weak that they can't play 16's in the fall, in this diluted travel ball environment, then get ready for a big plate of humiliation when sooner or later, you run into an elite team of 13 year olds moving up from 12's (like a Lakewood Ladies) and you get your head kicked in anyway.

At least there's some dignity in getting boat raced by kids in your own age group. Not much dignity can be salvaged when a team of sophomores gets run ruled by 8th graders.

[onedownonetogo]

Pretty sure that the teams that are being discussed here are never going to get close to a game with the Lakewood Ladies. I think we are talking about teams that are essentially glorified rec-ball teams. They are looking at talent v talent and not sophomores v 7th graders. And if you can't relate to this kind of thinking then you haven't been to enough junior varsity high school games, where teams filled with frehmen, sophomores, and juniors can't beat most of the top 12u "A" teams I know.