Giving up

[DonnieS]

Couple of years ago, some college coaches were watching one of my players. I finally had gotten their attention, pointed out the player I wanted them to watch, and she hits a grounder to ss, ss fields it beautifully, fires it across to 1st, out. My player ran hard and did a hard last lunge at 1st, but no go. She turned and trotted back to the dugout, caught my eye, grinned and shrugged her shoulders. I said 'Well guys, sorry, hoped she could have hit better, got on, so on and so on. She really is a better hitter than that - .' One of them stopped me - 'Coach, we know she can hit, we know all that, but what is more important to us than that is what does she do when it doesnt work. What she just showed us was she doesn't give up - she hit into a certain out and still ran her xxx off to get to first - then instead of moping, she grins and runs back to the dugout - thats is our girl, we want her.' That stuck with me - I have had coaches tell me, we want to see a player interact with her team, her coaches, we want to see her whole attitude, we know she is an athlete, otherwise we wouldnt be here, but we have to see how she handles failure, cause its going to happen a lot in college and can she handle it - thats what we want to see.

The reason I bring this up now is I dont know how many of you watched the cowboys play the Eagles this weekend (Sunday the 27th) and watched romo lay on the ground after another of his mistakes, put his hands to his face, and then walk back to the sidelines with his head down and go sit on the bench. I have seen other nfl players (the Peyton brothers come to mind) make big mistakes, shake their head, and then remember, they are a leader and need to set the tone. When that player gives up, there is nothing more contagious. When Romo put up the white flag, it was over. A lot of years ago, Buffalo was behind Houston 38-0 at half, and came back and won the game, 41-38. My team has been down by 6 runs in a tournament championship game in the bottom of the last inning and came back and won the game, they dont always come back but they know they can. I have been told that my team is the luckiest team a number of times.

What is it that keeps the kids in the game? I am told that I dont yell enough, that I dont take it serious, etc. that kind of stuff. What I tell the girls is the great thing about travel ball is you play hard, you practice fun, and even when you lose, leave it on the field and there is another tournament next weekend (sometimes). But you, the coach remember what the mistakes, that is the basics for the practices afterwards. Maybe some of us dont take it serious enough - I remember early on hearing some loud mouth parents yelling at their kid and I joined in very loudly - "What do yall think this is, a game ?!!!!!!!". Those parents left eventually.

So what makes kids give up? Is it part of them, like it seems to be with romo, choke and quit. My son quit baseball at 11, and 10 years later holds a grudge against me that I let him. My 18 y/o daughter quit softball for 7 months once at 12/13 and says its the best thing that happened for her - she watched and traveled with us following her younger sister and came back with more fire than ever. So maybe its pushing them too much, which I hear about all the time, or is it not pushing them enough at the right time? Not letting them enjoy the just the sport and the friends involved - quien sabe?

[3Bsnag]

This is one area I really can't figure out. My DD has played for 2 teams that are polar opposites.

On the one team, you could just see the destruction coming. A player made an error, hung her head, and the rest of the team went down with her. It's painful to watch because you could see it coming by their body language. Error after error, and as a parent you just wonder why no one would step up and change the tone. Not even sure if one player could have changed the tone.

The second team was what puzzled me the most. They never quit and pulled out many games in the last inning, last at bat, etc. They were so much fun to watch, they never gave up, and you just never knew who was going to be "that" player to turn the game around.

The only thing I can come up with is expectations. The second team was expected to win.

I think that trait is something you have. Don't know if it can be taught.

[DonnieS]

The only thing I can come up with is expectations. The second team was expected to win.

I think that trait is something you have. Don't know if it can be taught.

I agree - its something you have.

[greenandblue]

DonnieS - great post!!

I think it's a combination of: their personality, what they're allowed to do at 1) home and 2) on the field. If no one stops their lousy attitude, they certainly won't stop on their own. What's sad is when the player with the worst attitude (not running out pop ups, dropping their head, etc)., plays every single inning of every single game, while the girls that bust their butts, sit the bench. So... I would fault the coaches, from the first one that allowed it to happen to the their current coach that doesn't bench them until their attitude changes.

[Coach_Frisbee]

On the one team, you could just see the destruction coming. A player made an error, hung her head, and the rest of the team went down with her. It's painful to watch because you could see it coming by their body language. Error after error, and as a parent you just wonder why no one would step up and change the tone. Not even sure if one player could have changed the tone.

I think that trait is something you have. Don't know if it can be taught.

I know EXACTLY what you are talking about.

One of the pitchers on the team my DD was on threw a couple of balls, her shoulders started to slump, everything went downhill from there. The team saw it coming a mile away, the infield tried to pick her spirits up which never worked, so they got discouraged enough that they too started giving up. It was an ugly thing to watch.

The other pitcher on the team was exactly opposite. It didn't matter what the last pitch was (or the last couple of batters for that matter). She worked on the job at hand, the team really liked playing behind her and even if they lost the game had high spirits after it was all said and done. I really enjoyed watching these games!

These kids feed off of each other, good or bad. I do not think that there is anything a coach (or parent) can do to teach this.

Expectations? Absolutely!

[heybuckethead]

Some kids play because they win; some kids play to win. I personally like my kids to be with the latter.

IMHO, the one thing missing from youth sports today is the PASSION for the game, any game. Lot's of kids like the social aspect, the winning, the travel. I just don't see as many who just flat out love to play the game, by themselves, in the dark, at the local school yard, with an old ball, and nothing but a brick wall, or basket, or net to keep the company.

We were talking about this over Christmas dinner that I don't believe a single time in my kids' entire lives have I ever had to call them in from playing basketball, football, baseball, whatever to eat dinner. Each of them is considered a star athlete by the world at large. I think my parents generally had not a clue where I was at dinner time except that they knew I was outside somewhere playing some sport in the dark with my friends or by myself.

[4LoveoftheGame]

I disagree that it only comes from within. I contend that it can be both learned and/or innate. Some people are just natural born leaders, some natural born competitors. However, in the time span of my coaching and playing experience I have seen it catch on to others from others that possess those natural abilities.

I think alot of it comes from those in position of leadership as the orignal post stated. The example of Romo can be contrasted with that of Favre who in his playoff game was seen on the sidelines encouraging and inciting his teammates to continue on. Favre's team lost as well, but a totally different attitude was reflected in the score as opposed to the Cowboys.

Furthermore, I think while it can happen from within the player's themselves, the best teams are motivated and cultivated from the top by their coaches. Player's, especially in girl's fastpitch, tend to take their cues from their leadership. A good example was the WCWS Tennessee verses Arizona championship series. While Tennessee might have had the better talent (debatable), what was Coach Ralph Weekley doing throughout the course of the championship? While I do not profess to know what was happening behind the scenes, publicly in the dugout his head was hung low, touching the team banner for good luck, praying, etc. What does that tell your team?

While not a sports psychologist, (I play one on and off the field...lol), I implore alot of mental training to draw this out of our player's and have had some very good success with it in just the subject area. I also personally know of quite a few Division I and other schools that implement mental training to achieve exactly what we are discussing. Just my two cents.

[DonnieS]

I disagree that it only comes from within.

I think alot of it comes from those in position of leadership as the orignal post stated.

The example of Romo can be contrasted with that of Favre who in his playoff game was seen on the sidelines encouraging and inciting his teammates to continue on. Favre's team lost as well, but a totally different attitude was reflected in the score as opposed to the Cowboys.

Furthermore, I think while it can happen from within the player's themselves, the best teams are motivated and cultivated from the top by their coaches. .

What I think is that there needs to be this nucleus of leadership on the team, not by the coach, not just one person, but a player or two, or three, who together demonstates a confidence that they are going to make something happen, it gets contagious, the rest of the team 'catch' it - that seems to make the opponent uneasy and prone to errors. The coaches job in this is really, to stay out of the way, lay out the play, explain the game plan, small ball, hit and run, whatever, and then let the girls execute. The coaches must show confidence in every kid on the field and on the bench - sometimes it seems like you can almost be guaranteed that the kid on the bottom of the b/a for that weekend will be the one who starts the rally or wins the game.

How you get a team like that is tough, it takes a long time. You can't (I can't) hold tryouts and pick out those kind of players. You have to let them practice with you, then invite them to pickup with you, and get them into situations where they can choke and see what happens. Seeing how they fit into the team is crucial. After we have invited someone to pickup, I meet with the rest of team, call them, quietly ask them, and get their feel. Does this kid fit - will our loose team attitude not work with their personality - do they look like the kind that 'gives up' .

[MTR]

The reason I bring this up now is I dont know how many of you watched the cowboys play the Eagles this weekend (Sunday the 27th) and watched romo lay on the ground after another of his mistakes, put his hands to his face, and then walk back to the sidelines with his head down and go sit on the bench. I have seen other nfl players (the Peyton brothers come to mind) make big mistakes, shake their head, and then remember, they are a leader and need to set the tone. When that player gives up, there is nothing more contagious. When Romo put up the white flag, it was over. A lot of years ago, Buffalo was behind Houston 38-0 at half, and came back and won the game, 41-38.

Close, it was Frank Reich in the 1992 AFC Wild Card game, final score, 38-35 in OT after being down 35-3.

You have a great point about raising the white flag and players quitting. However, you also need to remember these "pros" are scrutinized by the press. Many an NFLer, MLBer, NBAer, NHLer, etc. are ripped on TV, radio, print and the internet for "not caring" if there is no emotion shown when the opposition comes up with a good play or their team fails to accomplish the specific goal at hand. It's not right or fair, but that's the way it is and I don't doubt for a second that often goes through their mind when on the field or sidelines.

I see children and adults emulate these "pros" to the point of throwing fits on the field if a play or call doesn't go their way. I think what needs to be taught is the difference in showing support and reinforcing your commitment to the team and game, and acting like a spoiled brat or that they are disappointed/upset with their teammates which the Cowboys often show on the sidelines.

What is it that keeps the kids in the game? I am told that I dont yell enough, that I dont take it serious, etc. that kind of stuff. What I tell the girls is the great thing about travel ball is you play hard, you practice fun, and even when you lose, leave it on the field and there is another tournament next weekend (sometimes). But you, the coach remember what the mistakes, that is the basics for the practices afterwards. Maybe some of us dont take it serious enough - I remember early on hearing some loud mouth parents yelling at their kid and I joined in very loudly - "What do yall think this is, a game ?!!!!!!!". Those parents left eventually.

Sounds like a good plan to me (which won't get you far here ).

My son quit baseball at 11, and 10 years later holds a grudge against me that I let him. My 18 y/o daughter quit softball for 7 months once at 12/13 and says its the best thing that happened for her - she watched and traveled with us following her younger sister and came back with more fire than ever. So maybe its pushing them too much, which I hear about all the time, or is it not pushing them enough at the right time? Not letting them enjoy the just the sport and the friends involved - quien sabe?

Sounds like your 21 yo son needs to have a talk with you 18 yo daughter. She apparently got it. It seems he still hasn't.

I think the one thing a parent must do is coach their children from the sideline. Ask and suggest, don't preach and demand.

Of course, JMO

[catdad]

Nothing get attention like a team or player that just doesn't quit.

I use to call my team the comeback Cats because we had so many comeback wins. I always encouraged the girls that we were never out of a game as long as we still had another at bat.
They would come in down by 3 or 4 and I would gather them up and tell them I needed a hero, someone to be that special person and get a spark going, and it always amazed me how they would respond just because someone believed in them.

I think some kids come by it naturally and some need to be taught. My DD is a perfectionist in some ways and when she was younger she wanted to strike em all out and get a base hit every at bat. Our first year of travel ball she started getting into the habit of not running hard on infield grounders, because she thought it was going to be an out anyway, and this developed into totally stopping short of 1st if the throw was made.

I pointed out what a bad example she was setting by giving up so easily and how this would rub off on other players. Still I got the same results. So the next tournament we went to I told her if it happened again it was immediately going to be a lap around the field. Sure enough she hit a grounder to short and stopped short of 1st. When she came back to the dugout, I said don't even go in just make your lap now. Wow, I did'nt realize how much she hated doing that in front of all her teammates and all the parents, but I tell you what I've never had to tell her to run hard again! Not only did it adjust her attitude, but with her speed she started getting on base more because only a slight bobble by an infielder meant a rushed throw and usually a safe call.

So not only do I believe it just comes naturally but it can also be caught and taught.