ssarge wrote:It's not people that need convincing.
It's video cameras filming riseballs in profile that aren't convinced. It's the computer software used to track the flight trajectory of the ball that isn't convinced. It's gravity that isn't convinced. It's the study that shows a ball spinning beyond the the limits of human capability and still not "hopping" above it's original trajectory, that isn't convinced.
Well said.
And I would add that of the list presented, PEOPLE are the only example that can actually be tricked by illusion. This possibility HAS to at least be CONSIDERED, or so you would think.
And yet SOME PEOPLE continue to state / believe that it is the video and physics which are "tricks," and that their eyes - viewing from a SINGLE one of the many available angles - have it right.
And not only that, they disparage others who choose to present the evidence. Not REFUTING the evidence - how could they - but simply inferring anyone who believes it is a moron.
It's why I love PEOPLE. We're an amazing bunch.
As for the point that it is a "riseball" because it crosses the plate at a greater elevation from the ground than when released, yeah, THAT'S what people mean when they describe a riseball hopping over a bat or climbing up the strike zone.
First off, no high road for your side.
Where is this alleged evidence? It sure isnt on that NASA thread. Where are these alleged video's from profile proving no movement? All thats been presented is the following:
A very weak link, a few "b-b-b-but s-s-s-sarge saiddd....."' cheerleaders and a token name caller who probably wouldnt know a rise ball if it landed on him, let alone how to throw or judge one.
The one single link of alleged evidence, a self proclaimed buddy of "Nasa smart guy" with a link explaining HOW a baseball DOES curve, and some funky math that is in turn used to allegedly prove a rise ball cannot rise. By extension, you should also be arguing there is no movement in softball at all. Ironically, you arent using the same math to prove that a softball curveball doesnt curve. I suppose that is to not get laughed off the board.
My intuition and experience tells me movement is much more difficult with a softball than with a hardball. In fact, and I've said it before, even at the highest levels through 16U, discernible movement is rare, usually relegated to a very few pitchers. 12-14U.. maybe 1 pitcher in a tournament. MAYBE. Last Fresno Force, which was the only time I saw top 12U's from behind the plate, I dont think I saw a single 12U pitcher with movement. Some good location, but nothing spinning. I reported that at the time. It doesnt happen with 12Us.
By 14's and 16's in baseball, you will be getting much more movement than in softball.
I have nothing proving this, but this is my view point and my experience.
So I understand that movement with a softball does require significant spin, and especially younger ages, simply cannot do it. A lot of the cheer leaders here likely have truely not seen movement pitches simply because of the level of pitches they watch.
Now if your math, by some unprovable miracle, is even close ... I highly suspect the model it is based on would essentially equate to a softball being shot out of a level tube and how much spin would be required... as opposed to mathematically taking into account pitching mechanics and mechanics of the hand, arm, hips, follow through, body shape, position at release, and the trained muscle memory earned after years to get the pitch just right. How could it?
Softballs have movement. Some have significant movement. I've seen a few male and female junkballers that I would say defy any math, logic, and reason. Yes, for the under-50 IQ brigade , I would consider these pitchers to be magicians. They take you out of your shoes. Maybe some just havent seen the movement as I have, or maybe they are stuffing their face with a hot dog, or yapping. But I'm watching these pitches from MANY angles, and yes, they move.
But there is one born every minute.. and I guess this phony math proving nothing and with no supporting evidence is able to sucker people out of what they should go and just simply watch for themselves. Thrown by the right pitcher correctly, Curveballs curve, riseballs rise, drop balls drop.. and that other stuff they do.. the change up that floats and dances like a bugs bunny cartoon.. yeah I dunno how they do it, but I have seen it.
