jonriv wrote:Defty wrote:DirtyRiders wrote:Looking for opinions on if it’s ok to send a message to other team and when it’s ok. Here’s an example. 2 outs with a runner on 2B in a 14u friendly. Girl hits a come backer to pitcher. Pitcher overthrows 1B and runner on 2nd heads for home. RF picks up the ball and fires home. Runner doesn’t slide and proceeds to run over Catcher. Catchers helmet goes flying and runner ends up on top of Catcher. Catcher holds onto the ball so girl is out. The runner does not get ejected, does not check on Catcher, and no one from the dugout checks on Catcher. IMO our manager should have been more animated to protect his player but when everyone realizes Catcher is ok play resumes as nothing happened. Heres my question.....who thinks the 1st pitch to their first batter the next inning should have been drilled in the back? It seems like the game has changed because back in the day that would have been a no brainer
I think one of the problems here, and probably one of the reasons that you are getting so much push back from Jonriv is that this is an "unwritten rule". Which means it's just understood and goes un-discussed openly. You are attempting to openly talk about something that is controversial. Why do you think MLB pitchers and managers always argue with the Umpire when the pitcher gets tossed for "Sending a message"? It's supposed to look unintentional, but the umpires know what's happening because there are unwritten rules.
Also, I'm not sure if you are talking about hitting a player to send a message or just brushing them off the plate with something nice and inside. Either way, you will have people that say its part of the sport and have no problem with it, on one end of the spectrum, and people that would want to lock em' up like Jonriv, on the other end of the spectrum.. and a bunch of opinions in between
IMO unwritten rules likes these have served to create balance when umpires and rules don't seem to be doing the job of protecting the players. I don't like the aspect of hurting a person for sport, but I also don't like players, my daughter in particular, getting hurt during a play that seems intentionally dirty, and it being chalked up to an accident or part of the sport. I guess the grey line is that girls get hit by pitches all the time, so by "sending a message" you are taking a measured risk that the result will just be a bruise and a sent message. The reality is however, this unwritten rule has withstood the test of time in baseball and has the potential of doing the same in softball. Only time will tell.
I think there is a big difference between "unwritten rules" in the major leagues vs in youth sports. The "adults" are supposed to teach the kids the right way and insure the written rules are being applied properly. These are kids. As also mentioned prior- too many times "intention" is as much perception as reality and the escalation of 'messages" goes unchecked and accomplishes nothing(as is the case in MLB many times.
So one unwritten rule in baseball for many years was that if someone hit a homerun, the next time they would be plunked. Would that be OK? Where do you draw the line. The problem with "unwritten rules" is that many times different people are working under different sets of "unwritten rules"
My basic premise is that these kind of "messages" have no place in youth sports. Kids do not come up with it on their own and when they are taught they do not have the proper judgment to apply "justice" in a proportional way. IMO it is teaching kids the wrong way to play the game and putting these children in unnecessary risk.
JonRiv....What if the coach didn’t ask his or her pitcher to do anything and the Pitcher on her own decided to stick up for her teammate and throw one high and tight or hit someone in the backside? Are u ok with that as long as it isn’t coached by an adult to throw at a minor? It’s extremely rare and hardly ever happens so it’s mostly hypothetical but how do you fault that for having her teammates back?