DBAT"S POST ON VTD (I CALL BS)

[Fusion Gold]

Slade (Fusion Gold),
I am in SoCal and know zero about you or your org. My default attitude in such cases is to assume that you have and will continue to, help countless kids. That deserves respect and regard in my book.

All that said, your comments about Freshman/Sophmore verbals reflects profound ignorance of the actual experience. I strongly suggest that you locate and chat with multiple folks who have been through the experience. From my own experience as well as what other folks in the same boat have said to me, your views are way off. I'm confident that your advise to kids who are in the position to early verbal will be of much greater value if/when you have a greater awareness of the situation. I have a feeling that you are interested in helping kids to the very best of your ability which is why I'm taking the time to post this. That and as a message to others in your position.

Best Regards,
John

I'm not saying that every single kid that commits early that it would be a bad thing. I specifically said that every situation is unique and it is difficult to say what percentage of kids that have committed this early has worked out or it hasn't. But there are cases that I have talked to college coaches about that the verbal commitment isn't upheld or the player has been mislead from what they thought they where going to get as to what they actually got when it came time to sign the LOI. And alot of that is determined by what they see in the kid as a young player and what they actually develop into as they progress or in some cases do not progress as everyone had expected. Keep in mind that I am not trying to get one player recruited, I am trying to help mentor and direct alot of families through this process, and while you may not agree with my philosophy to call me ignorant without having a clue as to who I am or what my kids are trying to accomplish is pretty brash.

Regardless of what you percieve as my ignorance on the subject may or may not be, you will have a hard time convincing me that a freshman in HS is prepared to make this type of commitment and knows what she wants to major in and pursue as a career.

[3Bsnag]

Now here's where I disagree with the 2 travel coaches that just posted about early verbals. (Disclaimer: My opinions are generally speaking, do not apply to all, useless, and realizing there are cases of withdraws by both parties.)

You're right, most 14 or 15 year olds don't know what they want to major in and if they do, their choice of major could change. So what? College freshman change their minds frequently. Find some schools that you like that have a large offering and go to college 60, 80, or 100% off. Sounds like a great deal to me.

"...these decisions will impact the rest of their lives and their kids and so on..." I don't agree with this argument. A younger teenager deciding she wants to go to a particular college is not going to negatively impact her life and the lives of her grandkids. She's still going to college. No stupid boyfriend is going to mess that up either, "I want to go to school with Johnny". Ha! No.

For those of us not on a team that draws 20 DI coaches to their practices or a 4pm Sun game, have you actually taken the time to help your kid do her emails, letters, and updates? It's extremely time consuming. My DD's take on it is "Do you know how much time I would have to actually practice during the week if I didn't have to do this?" (sometimes it's a manipulative hint )

While this assumption may be different for pitchers, can you not tell a 14 or 15 year old who has "it"? I think I can and those are the kids that are getting these offers. And if you can't tell, why are you putting her on your team and marketing her to those big DI's?

I would love for every kid to have the luxury of waiting until their junior year, but that reality is gone for the elite athlete with aspirations of playing for a top 50 school. Heck, I talked to a NAIA school a couple of weeks ago that was 1 away from being done with 2012's!!

What they get in return is a guarantee that if they do their part, they will receive a price-reduced education. They get to concentrate on their academics and game without worrying about the recruiting process anymore. Sweet!

[Black Mamba]

Gamewatcher first of all I dont bash people or organizations unless I have first hand knowledge of whats going on and it has something to do with me or my dd I dont worry about anything else. And I'm not casting stones just wish people would quit bashing each other and just do whats best for their kid.

[gamewatcher]

Gamewatcher first of all I dont bash people or organizations unless I have first hand knowledge of whats going on and it has something to do with me or my dd I dont worry about anything else. And I'm not casting stones just wish people would quit bashing each other and just do whats best for their kid.

So its ok for you to but not anyone else. Can you say hypocrite.

[DBAT Softball]

Here is one thing I think that all of us can agree on. Not a single coach, or head of an organization enjoys having to put their kids out there at an early age. The way things go now, we are asking a CHILD to make an educated ADULT decision on their future.

The other issue is the cost to the athlete to be recruited. YOU get to pay for the unofficial visit. YOU get to pay to attend camps, becuase the top schools no longer let you wait until you can take an official visit any more. It's a competitive cycle that has gotten out of control, and all it would take is a few schools to begin getting verbals from 8th graders and the trend will be set, and the competition will have to follow or risk being left behind.

The issue, is that travel coaches and college coaches always talk about how out of control it is, yet travel coaches are not willing to tell college coaches that "she's too young, thanks but no thanks" and college coaches aren't willing to wait, because they stand to lose prospects by not getting on kids early.

The NCAA would have to be the one to really crack down on the early verbal, and restrict communication even more.

I'd like 2 more years with my current group to learn and only focus on playing ball, before we have to think about college.... but the current recruiting climate doesn't allow that though.

College Softball SHOULD have an advantage over college baseball. There is very little physical projection left on a 15/16 year old young lady. Which, projection is everything. So, softball SHOULD have the ability to look at 15 and 16 year olds, and then give them 2-years to play where they don't have to project (guess) how well this kid would play as an 18 or 19 year old. Baseball? You don't even worry about building a list of 15/16 year old boys, unless they are a "physical player" that is almost full-grown (your 5% group). There are still too many suprises left in their growth and abilities.

The danger is that softball has now gotten into the projection business. They are having to take risks on how players develop over a longer time frame, and hope they guess right on how their tools stack up in 4-years.

You're going to start seeing larger programs miss on players now, because they've never had to project over a 3-4 year window with these kids. You know A LOT more about a girl when she's 17 then when she's 14 and 15.

We should all hope that the NCAA does something about this. The problem will continue until this happens, and we should all probably be a little concerned with where Softball is on the NCAA's priority list on cleaning this up.

[3Bsnag]

Agree with almost everything, EXCEPT:

The issue, is that travel coaches and college coaches always talk about how out of control it is, yet travel coaches are not willing to tell college coaches that "she's too young, thanks but no thanks" and college coaches aren't willing to wait, because they stand to lose prospects by not getting on kids early.

First, not your place as a travel coach to say no thanks.

Secondly, the only people who can stop it are the ones perpetuating- the college coach. We can't force them to offer money.

In a few years, some mid-majors, DII's and NAIA's are going to end up with some really talented kids. Maybe they are the one's secretly forcing early verbals.

[TEXASGLORY]

[quote="DBAT Softball"]

The issue, is that travel coaches and college coaches always talk about how out of control it is, yet travel coaches are not willing to tell college coaches that "she's too young, thanks but no thanks" and college coaches aren't willing to wait, because they stand to lose prospects by not getting on kids early.

I totally disagree on this point. This is a boundry that the TB coach should not cross. Once a player is taking unofficial or official visits and going to the school to talk with the coaches, the TB coach should no longer be a part of the process. We are not agents. A family that allows the TB coach to be involved in the selection process is insane. Great to ask me questions about what I know does or doesn't happen at said program. But one the decision process begins I get out of it. I always try to tell parents and players that they do not need to be in a hurry, as a freshman or soph it is so early in the process and so many things can happen. However, once the family evaluates the situation and makes a decision. I can only be happy for the player.

Dbat, if you want to drive a college coach away from ever dealing with you, try that comment on a few coaches and see how it works. Next time you tell a college coach thanks but no thanks, you have crossed a line that should never be crossed, unless your willing to pay for that players education.

Dan

[HUH???]

BTW I would prefer over some of the tactics used by Glory (both), Fusion, BB and others...Tactics like trolling through the park and starting conversations with parents whose kids are playing for another team, calling the same when you know they're on another roster, recruiting pickup players, and any other cut throat scheme utilized by DFW's best.

AMEN JOE, although to be fair, I don't think believe Slade has ever does this.
Dave Devine (NEW ASA JO) does this on a regular basis. He represents TX Fusion and spouts off the "EARLY COLLEGE COMMITTS" they have, and "IF YOU DON'T PLAY FOR FUSION, YOU WON'T BE RECRUITED TO PLAY IN COLLEGE" and to many more lies to remember!

I am a fan of Slade, but not Devine.

[heybuckethead]

The number of sophomore and freshman players actually getting verballed is so microscopically small as to be irrelevant. Does it happen? Sure. Does it apply to 99 percent of the college-bound softball players in DFW? Not even close. But we have freshmen kids who are stressing because they aren't getting verbals from colleges when those kids don't have a snowball's chance of playing in the Big XII or SEC even if they were playing for the OC Batbusters.

The problem is too many unsophisticated/uninformed parents fall for this PR/marketing stuff, and they bolt to the programs who make these claims sound believable. . . only to have their kid shoved aside when she doesn't verbal after her sophomore year, usually for a kid who already earned her Div. I scholarship playing for some other program.

Everyone is too blame. But what you never see today is a top program advocating how they can teach your kid better fundamentals, game skills, etc. It is always about college recruiting opportunities even at the 12u and 14u level. The whole PR/marketing aspect of travel softball programs today is laughable if it wasn't so serious and effecting kids' lives.

[gamewatcher]

The issue, is that travel coaches and college coaches always talk about how out of control it is, yet travel coaches are not willing to tell college coaches that "she's too young, thanks but no thanks" and college coaches aren't willing to wait, because they stand to lose prospects by not getting on kids early.

I totally disagree on this point. This is a boundry that the TB coach should not cross. Once a player is taking unofficial or official visits and going to the school to talk with the coaches, the TB coach should no longer be a part of the process. We are not agents. A family that allows the TB coach to be involved in the selection process is insane. Great to ask me questions about what I know does or doesn't happen at said program. But one the decision process begins I get out of it. I always try to tell parents and players that they do not need to be in a hurry, as a freshman or soph it is so early in the process and so many things can happen. However, once the family evaluates the situation and makes a decision. I can only be happy for the player.

Dbat, if you want to drive a college coach away from ever dealing with you, try that comment on a few coaches and see how it works. Next time you tell a college coach thanks but no thanks, you have crossed a line that should never be crossed, unless your willing to pay for that players education.

Dan

Dan, you make good points, and I think your right about a TB coach not getting into the decision making of a player. But, you do try and promote certain schools, which is really close to the same thing. So that you can get on these forums and boast about your great connections and how you could be doing this for so and so's dd as a recruiting method. Not saying your the only one , but lets be honest.