Blue, stop coaching

[Iluvblue]

This weekend we are in Stockton. Blue calls time, calls me out to pitcher and lets her know foot is not on rubber and to fix it.

I have no problem with that, and I have no problem if he just calls illegal pitch, doesnt matter to me.

2 innings later, we pick a runner off at 3rd base and the kid gets in a rundown and we tag her out.

Blue comes over to my dugout, calls the third baseman out of the dugout and starts to tell her she didnt get out of the way of the runner(I assume here that he is talking after she threw the ball) and that she should...... this is when I stop him.

Blue, that is my job to handle, if I called you over to tell you how you screwed up that last play, would you want me telling you how to umpire?? he gets pissy and walks off arms in air mumbling. Now to his credit, he didnt take it out on me rest of game.

Now this is 2 times in 2 weeks we have had umpires trying to coach. Last week when the HP ump asked the other team if they were going to use a courtesy runner... I just got up and walked down the foul line biting my tongue. Then it happened again the next inning, when blue asked the opposing coach," Hey coach, you going to run for your pitcher?"

At that time I got up yelled down to her, "Hey blue, that is not your job to ask the coach what he is going to do, it is his job to inform you what he is going to do." She stands up, takes her mask off and asks if I want to umpire... so here we go. I go down and say hell yes, since you want to coach, give me that mask and I will umpire.

This is the same blue that went out to tell the base umpire we were leaving early and he needed to call it. Funny stuff.

[Skarp]

Blue comes over to my dugout, calls the third baseman out of the dugout and starts to tell her she didnt get out of the way of the runner(I assume here that he is talking after she threw the ball) and that she should...... this is when I stop him.

I would think that there is a safety issue here, and that blue can either a) negate the out by calling obstruction, if warranted, or b) bring it to the player's/coach's attention so that they can take corrective measures in the future. No?

[ASAPAump]

Blue comes over to my dugout, calls the third baseman out of the dugout and starts to tell her she didnt get out of the way of the runner(I assume here that he is talking after she threw the ball) and that she should...... this is when I stop him.

I would think that there is a safety issue here, and that blue can either a) negate the out by calling obstruction, if warranted, or b) bring it to the player's/coach's attention so that they can take corrective measures in the future. No?

a) Yes, and if he thought that F5 obstructed the runner, he should have called it.
b) Hell no. The call should be enough to inform the coach. I am totally with Iluvblue on this one.

[Iluvblue]

There was no obstruction... had there been, he would have called it. This aint 10u rec ball here. The blue should call the game. And he certainly wasnt bringing anything to my attention, as he was calling my playerr out of the dugout to give her instruction on what to do...... TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE, because what he feels should be done, and what I feel should be one could be completely different. That is why he is the umpire and I am the coach.

Should I bring it to his attention when he is out of position in the field? Or how bout in the same game when the coach comes out to ask him a question about a play. he explains it, and the coach does NOT ASK HIM to get help, yet the umpire just out of the blue says, but you know I will go ask my partner for help. is that proper mechanics?

'But if I bring it to his attention he is doing things wrong.... we know the outcome of that conversation.

[Skarp]

Okay, hypothetical:

On several singles to the outfield, 1st baseman fails to give up her bag. None of the batters attempt to round, however, and are thus unimpeded by the 1st baseman. Hence, no obstruction. 1st baseman is clearly oblivious to the fact that she is standing directly where a hard-charging runner would round the base, and is in danger of being blindsided. In short, by virtue of where she is positioning herself, she is creating a dangerous situation for herself and other players. Is it appropriate for the blue to inform the player and/or coach about this, or does he need to wait for an opportunity to call obstruction and let the call speak for itself?

[xxxYerOut]

Absolutely wait and call it when it happens. Especially this time of year during championship play. To me, that is not much different then asking the coach if they want a courtesy runner. That could be a game changing situation - IMO.

[Killer Rabbit]

Okay, hypothetical:

On several singles to the outfield, 1st baseman fails to give up her bag. None of the batters attempt to round, however, and are thus unimpeded by the 1st baseman. Hence, no obstruction. 1st baseman is clearly oblivious to the fact that she is standing directly where a hard-charging runner would round the base, and is in danger of being blindsided. In short, by virtue of where she is positioning herself, she is creating a dangerous situation for herself and other players. Is it appropriate for the blue to inform the player and/or coach about this, or does he need to wait for an opportunity to call obstruction and let the call speak for itself?

I say it depends on the age of the players. 10U talk to the coach. High school players-live and learn.

[ASAPAump]

Okay, hypothetical:

On several singles to the outfield, 1st baseman fails to give up her bag. None of the batters attempt to round, however, and are thus unimpeded by the 1st baseman. Hence, no obstruction. 1st baseman is clearly oblivious to the fact that she is standing directly where a hard-charging runner would round the base, and is in danger of being blindsided. In short, by virtue of where she is positioning herself, she is creating a dangerous situation for herself and other players. Is it appropriate for the blue to inform the player and/or coach about this, or does he need to wait for an opportunity to call obstruction and let the call speak for itself?

"wait for an opportunity to call obstruction and let the call speak for itself" Yes. Moreover, if I am the other coach, I am having my girls round into F3 every time to get the obstruction call. Not maliciously, but there probably will be contact. Eventually, the opposing coach will figure it out.

[ScoringPosition]

Skarp,

Referencing ASA mechanics, absolutely not. Per your hypothetical no obstruction has occurred nor do you know one will occur. From Blue's perspective there's nothing to talk about. If obstruction does occur later then call it.

In a couple of posts in this thread you mention talking to the player or coach. Again, this is wrong per trained mechanics. Blue essentially never talks to the players. If he/she has something talk about Blues are trained to talk to the coach and let the coach handle the situation as they see fit. Even a perceived safety situation is taken to the coach.

The OP is dead on per umpire training- let the coach do the coaching. An issue to look at it: suppose Blue gives advice to a player and the player gets hurt complying with Blue's advice. Who is at fault and potentially liable? Suppose a player complies with Blue's avice and it costs her team the game for some reason. Is that OK?

Let Blue officiate and the coach coach.

[Iluvblue]

Skarp.... I would have no problem with an ump going over to the opposing coach and letting him know his 1st baseman is going to get killed if she doesnt get out of the way after watching her do this multiple times... but not to the player.

Good teams dont need the blue to instruct, weak teams and oblivious coaches are a different story. But there is a big difference IMO, when a blue walks over in between innings of a regular tourney to let a coach know something he sees. This lets the coach decided whether or not he wants to change something. And some weak not even know the kid is doing that and could get hurt.... I thnk level of team and age is a huge factor in how blue handles this. I dont think there is a black and white for blue in this case. I think blue is like a cop with a little discretion depending on level of team and ages of players.

This weekend a catcher was clearly obstructing at the plate on squeeze plays. Never once did she have control of the ball as our kids slid into her. This was the same catcher we played a month ago and got hurt that I got blasted for on this very site. I kept waiting for blue to call obstruction or at the least pull the coach aside and let him know... all in the name keeping MY KIDS safe... and it never happened. So... should I go up to blue to inform him he was blowing this call and someone is going to get hurt???
I damn sure wanted to, but I know I would have been in the parking lot also.

All I want is for the umpire to call the game. I am a competent coach and I will handle my team as I see fit. I dont want an umpire instructing my players anymore then they want me telling them how to umpire. Problem is some umpires get pissed when you tell them to not talk to your players .... unless it is a little idle chit chat after a good play, or in between an inning.
But the umpire that sits and wants to talk to my ss all game........ nothing pisses me off more. That kid has too much to think about to then be listening to talk from an umpire right before a pitch.