Are 12U Houston teams too watered down ?

[Vess Express]

I don't know why people are so concerned about having too many teams in TX. It's not wise to try and limit the amount of kids wanting to play if you want your sport to grow.

At least through 14U, it would be great to have the best team in the nation, but it is more important for a kid to play a lot. But, you can have it both ways. If your dd is on a really good team, but maybe you feel they aren't getting enough time at the position they want to play, go get that time somewhere else. P/U with a local team, play up an age in rec. ball, whatever. Then you could keep your better team together for national play, and your dd could get the time at a position she wants to play. She might end up helping the better team out with her experience.

The classifications of A,B, Open etc., will help out teams, even if they are difficult to enforce completely. At least teams can (if they will) use them as a guideline. The coaches and parents should understand that Open would be a free-for-all in terms of competition (for that age group). There should be no run limits per inning (keep the mercy rule), have fewer guaranteed games, and I would not be in favor of giving out placements for 9 of the 21 teams in a tournament. If a team cannot compete in A or Open, a coach should move them to B, and let them have a chance to improve without being crushed. Keep run limits, and have a larger number of guanteed games. It shouldn't matter if the system is perfect, but at least the coaches and parents can sort their teams out if they wish.

[slaphitter]

While the classification system would be better, I think getting teams to play at their own age group would be an easier way to get it under control, then, in time, incorporate the classification system.

Look at the Ronald McDonald, they strictly enforce the no playing up rule, and the tournament fills up quickly. Are there teams there that are weaker than the top dogs would like? Heck yes, but at least they are all the same age group.

If every tournment had the top teams of each class Like the RM does then there would be no reason to play up. The top teams want competition not trophies. They are preparing, every practise and every game and every tournment for Nationals. Period. If TD's Would just say this is an A tournment and stick to it then more and more teams would play in there age groups because the competition would be there. Let the others play in strictly B tournments. If you have been around STX softball very much you know who is A and who Is B.

[JCates]

While the classification system would be better, I think getting teams to play at their own age group would be an easier way to get it under control, then, in time, incorporate the classification system.

Look at the Ronald McDonald, they strictly enforce the no playing up rule, and the tournament fills up quickly. Are there teams there that are weaker than the top dogs would like? Heck yes, but at least they are all the same age group.

If every tournment had the top teams of each class Like the RM does then there would be no reason to play up. The top teams want competition not trophies. They are preparing, every practise and every game and every tournment for Nationals. Period. If TD's Would just say this is an A tournment and stick to it then more and more teams would play in there age groups because the competition would be there. Let the others play in strictly B tournments. If you have been around STX softball very much you know who is A and who Is B.

The problem with the classification system is that a team can be "A" by defintion or rule, and still not be able to beat some of the better "B" teams. The coaches quickly learn which "few" teams are actually strong, well coached legit "A" teams. The problem then becomes how many times do you want to play the same few teams? Playing up in 14U as well as playing the strong 12U teams allows you to see some different things you do not see playing the same teams all the time.

[Heartwell]

Agree JCates,

What are the top teams going to do? If there is only 10 or let's say 12 top teams in your age division(region: NTX, Austin, Houston) which is a stretch but as an example. Do you want to play them year round? Every other weekend? Even if you stay in your age group and we are talking about the top 2 maybe 4 teams in an area and travel, you are still only going to play 4 to 6 teams that are at your level. When you play at the Ronald McDonald, Bomber, Invitationals, Qualifiers you are going to play more teams at your level of play.

I think what bothers some teams are the teams that play up and are two years younger than the age group or more. For example a second year 14U playing Gold or '99 playing 14U. Physically I don't think they are ready to play at that level. I've seen my daughter's team hit some balls so hard against a team that was younger playing up that the infield got out of the way and so did the outfield.

That's where I see the issue some of these coaches need to understand that playing up can be dangerous to their girls. It's definitely a safety issue. As a coach you really need to analyze your team. TD's should not let this happen you have plenty of teams signing up for tournaments anyway.

Keep the tournaments "Open". Let the TD's do the separate pools and put the strongest teams together. Let them beat up on each other to make themselves better. They are not trophy hunting anyway. Just like that McKinney tournament this weekend where one pool is loaded. That's like a mini "A" tournament in itself, it should be lot's of fun and great softball. You are in a win win situation in that pool because you are only making your team better.

I'm sure there is more to it than what I pointed out.

[RlCldH2O]

The problem then becomes how many times do you want to play the same few teams?

Now this discussion has come full circle. It seems the answer after all is we need MORE teams. We need more atheletes getting better, so we have more teams getting better.

With more teams a classification system will work. Take a look at boys select baseball. Not that the boys system will work for softball. The change of a single dominant pitcher can make a B team turn into an A team pretty fast.

With a classification system then Teams playing up could play B tournaments first then if they get some wins go into an A tournament. Neither team learns anything from the 19-0 thumping that results when a mid-level team plays up and meets a powerhouse. So what happens? The powerhouse start looking at playing up and the cycle continues.

[slaphitter]

The problem then becomes how many times do you want to play the same few teams?

With a classification system then Teams playing up could play B tournaments first then if they get some wins go into an A tournament. Neither team learns anything from the 19-0 thumping that results when a mid-level team plays up and meets a powerhouse. So what happens? The powerhouse start looking at playing up and the cycle continues.

The next obvious question is, Who in Softball can make this classification sytem work to benefit all the dd's and all of the teams ???? All the Girls that want to play Softball at a highly competitive level should be able to, which I believe everyone is in favor of. It needs to be controlled not only for the safety of these girls but also to have a learning environment so the skills of these girls improve. We also want to keep the leagues alive for those who want to play, but do not want to play travel ball.

[JCates]

I don't see the cycle stopping. Tournaments are held to fund teams and TD's are not going to turn down needed funds. That is one reason the top 12U teams play up a lot to face better competition.

Coaches have to be honest with themselves and realize the level of talent on their teams. They can then look for tourneys that feature teams that might provide a challenge without getting the snot beat out of them. If you are a coach of a weak team, and you put your team in a tourney full of strong teams, you are putting your team at liability and major risk for injury. You need to be more responsible and quit looking through your rose colored Oakleys.

Only when this happens will things begin to balance out.

[3monkeys]

Overall, I think the Houston teams do a decent job policing themselves. For the most part teams playing up, are capable of holding their own. Will they win a true strong tournament playing up? Most likely not. Will they get their butts kicked, likewise, probably not.

The only real "violations" I have seen is decent to strong lower age level teams playing up in a very weak tournament (by weak, I mean issues throwing and catching balls, not even mentioning the pitching) and thinking they did something great by scratching off a few wins.

Those that have been around awhile can look at team lists for tournies and make a decision if it is a weak or strong and decide if that is where they want their teams to play. Stonger teams will gravitate toward the stronger ones and which also will attract middle of the road teams, but that is okay because I think it helps both teams out.

Will their ever be a true ranknig system, who knows. It is just to hard to maintain. Not only would you have to weight teams, but the tournies as well. The truth is, the ones that have been around, know who the top teams are in each age group.

[slaphitter]

3monkeys
You made some very good comments to this post. Some of the middle of the rd. teams will enter weak tournments just to get the metal. They have to keep the parents happy so they can puff out their chest.
The middle of the rd teams who will get better and stay around play the stronger teams. This will help them to recognize where they are weak, so they can work on and develope the skills needed.
The weak teams need to stay in tournments they can compete in while continuing to develope the skills of the girls. Hopefully by the 2nd year of the age group they can move up to stronger tournments and still compete.
Some of these weaker teams coaches stick these poor girls in tournment where they get slaughtered every week and learn nothing. These coaches should find something else to do and let better coaches help these girls.
It is all about skill levels and recognizing where your team is at and what you need to do to get them to the next level.

[soreshins]

The answer is not more teams. The answer, in part, is less teams. If you want to compete on a national level the talent needs to be concentrated not diluted.

Several times per year and at least prior to nationals, the top 12U teams need to gather in Austin, Dallas, Houston, Waco or Coriscana and play friendlies. These games need to be 7 innings. Another problem with the 12U division is that most bracket games are 5 innings. At qualifiers and nationals all of the games are 7 innings. I can't tell you the number times I have seen Texas teams lose games in the 6th or 7th inning. Had the games lasted 5 they would have won, but these games last 7 and they lost.

The other alternative is to play 14U as much as possible. The 14U division is made up primarily of 8th graders, particularly this time of year. A top 12U team should do well against this competition and it will keep them from having to play as many subpar 12U teams.