ASA Nationals Qualified 18G

[Gone in 2.6]

Yeah but it was sure cool watching young ladies in Lancaster that I had just paid admission to watch earlier this year.

Although I personally enjoyed the college players, I'll stop short of citing the "age eligible excuse". It's weak. I know a whole bunch of kids who are age eligible for 16u but are forbidden to come down from Gold. ASA could certainly have their say about age eligible players who are on D1 scholarship if they wanted to.

They just don't want to. Fine be me. But lets call it what it is. Inconsistent.

[DHBHitting]

a) Its not a level playing field. The college players play every day all year. They lift weights, they condition, they play. Its basically similar to the USC football team entering the NFL playoffs.

Response: I find that excuse real weak, the top GOLD players do the same thing so what are you saying? They play GOLD fall ball, high school, GOLD ball, the top players lift, they condition, they work out, yes there is a difference in talent levels but there are a whole host of athletes that are not having an issue competing on that level so whats the difference? If you work hard enough, and are good enough, you can compete and isnt that how it should be at the highest level possible? GOLD ball is not for everyone, it was never meant to be for everyone, either you can hack it or you cant, if you cant, go somewhere where you can

b) Its a case of the rich get richer. The teams that are there every year will always be there because their kids will always come back to win Gold Nationals.

Response: What about the teams who are not there every year? Where do their college kids go? They could bring back their college kids just the same couldnt they?

c) The knife cuts both ways for the unrecruited athlete....they could do very well against college freshmen and be seen by a college or they could bomb.

Response: And if they bomb dont you think a college coach would like to see that a kid can not cut it before they give them a 60,000 scholarship? GOLD ball is to help the top elite athlete show that they can play with the other top elite athletes that have come before them and are now in college. If you are trying to get recruited wouldnt you want to know yourself whether playing D-1 on what ever level is something you should even be trying to do? GOLD ball is the top level, the highest level, it is to be played by the best players possible, period. This is how the college coaches want it, this way they can see who can really help their program and who can not

d) I wonder how all these kids that do the fundraising to go to Nationals in the fall are going to feel about sitting on the pine during quailifying and Gold Nationals, sitting behind a college freshman who didn't raise a dime for the trip?

Response: Every program and club is different, those that are in that situation I would assume the coach communicates to them very clearly that not playing in the summer is a possibility. So these kids either decide this is what they want to do, or not. But summer GOLD ball is for winning, it is for establishing your program as one of the top in the country as so you can attract the young talent in your area to tryout for you in the fall. You do that by playing well at qualifiers and being competitive at nationals.

Its a situation caused by the idiots back east. Haning got tired of getting beaten by college freshman....so now they will be playing on an even playing field. It just sucks for everybody
else.

Response: Maybe this is my ignorance but since when did Hanning ever get beat consistently by anyone let alone the east coast? The guy has like 14 national titles or something, and I dont even know how many of those are GOLD I would assume the majority of them. Look it does not suck for those that can compete, if you can not compete then go find somewhere where you can it is that simple, you dont have to play GOLD if you dont want too, there are other options. But if you want to compete at the highest level, if you want to play the best, then do it and dont cry about it, just get out there and get after it, if you lose you tip your hat get back on the practice diamond and continue to work.

[Sam]

I don't think you can compare a college scholarship player's life to that of a HS player. Some phenomenal players will be able to compete but their lives are not even close.

I would argue that college coaches don't really care one way or another ...though I wonder how they might feel about their stud pitcher blowing out her arm or their CF tearing an ACL during a Gold qualifier.

Haning has won one Gold title in the last 4 years, with the Shamrocks, Force and Firecrackers winning the other titles on the shoulders of some college studs. This year he has compiled his team in the same manner as the Shamrocks and Force....not so much the Firecrackers as I believe Langenfield was his only college freshman. I don't blame him or any of the Gold coaches who have decided to do it. To continue not doing it is akin to going to Gold Nationals with both arms tied behind your back.

We will agree to disagree, but I just think its like allowing travel players to compete as rec all-stars. They are certainly age eligible, but certainly not the same players.

[maehem1]

Thanks for the correction on the forfeiting thing. I will tell you that the AZ Hotshots Gatti team isn't fielding any college players this summer, although they did in past years. Several teams at the York Qualifier were fielding college players. The Shamrocks had 5, the Mustangs had at least 8. The team knows they will be facing teams with college players at Nationals, it's just something to deal with. As my daughter is an '08, she'll be looking for somewhere to play next summer as her school encourages them to play to keep their skills up.

[DHBHitting]

We will agree to disagree, but I just think its like allowing travel players to compete as rec all-stars. They are certainly age eligible, but certainly not the same players.

Response: Huh? Most of the girls that play on the top GOLD teams are all going to college in the fall so how are they that much different? I think you are putting way to much on it my freind, there are a ton of top GOLD programs that are doing just fine with very limited participation from college players. While yes, allot of the top clubs are stacked with college players, there are some that are doing just fine without an influx of college talent and are more than holding their own with younger players.

[Sam]

We will agree to disagree, but I just think its like allowing travel players to compete as rec all-stars. They are certainly age eligible, but certainly not the same players.

Response: Huh? Most of the girls that play on the top GOLD teams are all going to college in the fall so how are they that much different? I think you are putting way to much on it my freind, there are a ton of top GOLD programs that are doing just fine with very limited participation from college players. While yes, allot of the top clubs are stacked with college players, there are some that are doing just fine without an influx of college talent and are more than holding their own with younger players.

Uhh...most of the girls that play on the top Gold teams....are sitting on the bench watching college freshmen play in front of them. That was the whole argument here.....

[DHBHitting]

Uhh...most of the girls that play on the top Gold teams....are sitting on the bench watching college freshmen play in front of them. That was the whole argument here.....

Response: What teams are you talking about? Maybe within the club that you are associated with that is the case, but here in Northern CA that is certainly not the case. Now no, Nor Cal has not won a national championship or anything like that but we are more than competitive with the teams we put together, there has been a couple of top ten finishes in recent years.

The Sting, Strike Zone, Grappettes, Shockers, all have a fair share of young girls playing and they are competing with very limited college help, I believe the Sting has a couple, the Shockers have a couple of pitchers, Grappettes brought back a pitcher, Strike Zone has one or two I believe etc. But the point is these clubs are not just over run with college talent and they compete with their younger players.

Heck, as far as I can see the Sorcerer qualified this weekend with one college pitcher, 2 seniors, 2 juniors, 3 sophomores, and a freshman in their starting 9 so see it can be done. It is unfortunate if that is happening where you are playing but to generalize to include all of GOLD ball is just not accurate.

These teams are more than competitive and a couple of them have a chance to win a few games out in Oklahoma, now a national championship, don’t know about that, but they will compete. Yes, there are some clubs stacked to the gills with college players and they will more than likely be the teams to beat in Oklahoma, but not all clubs who are competitive are set up that way is my point.

[Demonboy]

Uhh...most of the girls that play on the top Gold teams....are sitting on the bench watching college freshmen play in front of them. That was the whole argument here.....

Response: What teams are you talking about? Maybe within the club that you are associated with that is the case, but here in Northern CA that is certainly not the case. Now no, Nor Cal has not won a national championship or anything like that but we are more than competitive with the teams we put together, there has been a couple of top ten finishes in recent years.

The Sting, Strike Zone, Grappettes, Shockers, all have a fair share of young girls playing and they are competing with very limited college help, I believe the Sting has a couple, the Shockers have a couple of pitchers, Grappettes brought back a pitcher, Strike Zone has one or two I believe etc. But the point is these clubs are not just over run with college talent and they compete with their younger players.

Heck, as far as I can see the Sorcerer qualified this weekend with one college pitcher, 2 seniors, 2 juniors, 3 sophomores, and a freshman in their starting 9 so see it can be done. It is unfortunate if that is happening where you are playing but to generalize to include all of GOLD ball is just not accurate.

These teams are more than competitive and a couple of them have a chance to win a few games out in Oklahoma, now a national championship, don’t know about that, but they will compete. Yes, there are some clubs stacked to the gills with college players and they will more than likely be the teams to beat in Oklahoma, but not all clubs who are competitive are set up that way is my point.

How many of those teams you cite suffered at least one run rule loss in Lancaster? All of them?

[DHBHitting]

True, they all took a loss/losses whether that be a run rule or a close one, they all took at least one.

But isn’t that par for the course when you match two teams that are packed with talent and good players? Sometimes you lose, sometimes you come up short, sometimes you catch a beat down, hey it happens. The Yankees have the best team money can buy and they lose, it just happens when you are constantly facing other teams that are just as talented as you are, it is just a part of what happens when you compete on the highest level possible

If you are playing GOLD ball with the idea that you will go undefeated or lose very rarely then you are going to be in a world of hurt. Because everyone loses, and or can lose, on any given day because that is how good the teams are, and isn’t that how it should be when you are playing at the highest level; and if you are a competitor isn’t that how you want it to be?

[Demonboy]

True, they all took a loss/losses whether that be a run rule or a close one, they all took at least one.

But isn’t that par for the course when you match two teams that are packed with talent and good players? Sometimes you lose, sometimes you come up short, sometimes you catch a beat down, hey it happens. The Yankees have the best team money can buy and they lose, it just happens when you are constantly facing other teams that are just as talented as you are, it is just a part of what happens when you compete on the highest level possible

If you are playing GOLD ball with the idea that you will go undefeated or lose very rarely then you are going to be in a world of hurt. Because everyone loses, and or can lose, on any given day because that is how good the teams are, and isn’t that how it should be when you are playing at the highest level; and if you are a competitor isn’t that how you want it to be?

Losing a tough game is not the same thing as getting run off the field.

You held these teams up as examples (your examples not mine) of teams that are very competetive using minimal college players. All of them got blown out at least once. Sorcerer did recover from their beat down getting a very fortunate losers bracket draw playing the #2 Sting team and the Jets. The Grapettes played for the berth and lost 15-0 in 3 innings. Remember, these were your examples.