2011 Rankings: 14U

[ssarge]

Yes, I do remeber the Sorcerer team that showed up Sunday for the Memorial day tourney and confirmed by many girls and coaches there were at least three or four noticably bigger and better players that have not been seen on the 14U team since Memorial weekend.

This comment is meant to be a joke, right? I sure hope so, because it is absolutely irresponsible otherwise.

There were no Sorcerer players on Memorial Weekend Sunday that weren't there on Saturday. There were no Sorcerer players on Monday that weren't there on Sunday. There were NO players in Lincoln (Memorial Day) who haven't played regularly since. There WERE three high school players in the dugout watching at Lincoln, who couldn't play because their CIF play wasn't finished. They have since started to play for the team (although one of them is the SMALLEST player - in terms of stature - on the team). The Sorcerer team has yet to have a full turnout of it's rostered players, for various reasons. Hoping to get the whole team onto the field in the weeks ahead.

There is no player competing on Sorcerer 14U now or in the past that was not age eligible. If this is a serious accusation, then identify yourself and let's have the conversation. My name is Scott Sarginson, I am a coach on the 14U Sorcerer team. I think a lot of people know me, and I am not hard to find if you want to have an actual conversation. It will be cicil on my part, but I'll tell you what I think of your accusation. If you want to make anonymous comments implicitly accusing us of cheating, then I am going to publically defend under my own name, and tell you that your comments are absolutely asinine. Completely absurd.


The team has lost twice this summer, once each to AASA, and Storm. And has beaten both those teams once this summer as well. All are fine teams, and could beat anybody on any given day.

Most teams with a free birth did not compete in their Metros out of courtesy to the teams that are trying to go to ASA nationals, or even regionals.

Ridiculous. Teams set a schedule of play designed to attain their goals. Period. Their opponents deserve fair play, respect, and good sportsmanship. They have no right to expect the "courtesy" of non-participation by any other team. Or even knowing what the other team's goals ARE. You want the berth, earn it by beating the teams in the other dugout.

This weekend, we are playing in an 18U tournament in Tahoe, and we're doing OK. May well be some teams there who aren't crazy about playing a younger team. I've been there, and I emphathize. But we're there for a reason - to advance our preparation for upcoming tournaments - and we're going to make every effort to win.

[ssarge]

Just in case anyone missed it, only one HR was hit in this same metros that included 18 teams.

I didn't see the one HR at the NorCal Metros, but there were 31 teams, and I believe 58 games. I thought we (Sorcerers 14s) hit well over the weekend, and we did manage to score some runs. As a part of that, I would have expected several HRs in the 7 games we played. We didn't get one. I was REALLY surprised on a few balls off the bat that I was certain were out. They didn't get close. Long ball is a big part of our game, and we'll keep working on it and try to make sure this doesn't replicate. If it does, well, speed never goes in a slump. Hopefully we can compensate with our short game.

Best regards,

Scott

[2nd2none]

Thanks for the clarification Sarge. I meant to say that 18u were also playing at same location as the 14s.

I also want to make clear that my comments are in no way influenced by any member of the Sorcerer organization. They are strictly my opinion & mine alone. I have the utmost respect for the Sorcerer organization & any disagreement with my comments should be directed to yours truly.

[ssarge]

I meant to say that 18u were also playing at same location as the 14s.

Oh, yeah, OK, obvious at a second reading. But no big deal either way.

I also want to make clear that my comments are in no way influenced by any member of the Sorcerer organization. They are strictly my opinion & mine alone. I have the utmost respect for the Sorcerer organization & any disagreement with my comments should be directed to yours truly.

I appreciate your comments. Thanks for the kind words about our team. Much appreciated.

I also don't have an issue with differing opinions. If someone thinks we suck and says that, no problem.

When someone says we cheat in a fundemental way (ineligible players), THAT I do have a problem with.

Best regards,

Scott

[bulldog21]

Comments well said above Scott.

By the way, I met your daughter for the first time at the Alhambra alumni game. I have know who she was but never met. We had a 10 minute conversation about softball and politics when it comes to award selections. In the conversation, I don't thinks she said I one time. A real class act.

[ssarge]

Comments well said above Scott.

By the way, I met your daughter for the first time at the Alhambra alumni game. I have know who she was but never met. We had a 10 minute conversation about softball and politics when it comes to award selections. In the conversation, I don't thinks she said I one time. A real class act.

Thank you for the kind words about Kelly. While I have a bias, I think she is a fine young lady.

Obviously, I married well. . . .

Best regards,

Scott

[LadyMagic83]

Most teams with a free birth did not compete in their Metros out of courtesy to the teams that are trying to go to ASA nationals, or even regionals.

Ridiculous. Teams set a schedule of play designed to attain their goals. Period. Their opponents deserve fair play, respect, and good sportsmanship. They have no right to expect the "courtesy" of non-participation by any other team. Or even knowing what the other team's goals ARE. You want the berth, earn it by beating the teams in the other dugout.

ssarge...you statement here surprises me given your wealth of informed and otherwise sound posts...

Actually, the Lady Magic 14u team (invited to Premier) pulled out of the Sacramento metro tournament for that very reason.This is also the second year in a row that the LM Gold team has neither seeked, nor competed for, a berth to ASA Gold Nationals given their invitation to participate at Premier. That is called Sportsmanship.

Clearly participation in a championship event when you have NO INTENT on advancing has an impact on the outcome of the event, hindering the opportunity for other young athletes who ARE looking to advance. You have been around at all different levels long enough to know that simply participating in the draw impacts the potential outcome of the tournament. There are so many variables included with every team, no matter their competitiveness, which influence who ends up playing on Sunday afternoon.

I fully recognize that other organizations may not understand or follow that philosophy, and that diversity is what makes the sport what it is today (in a good way). But to say it is "ridiculous" for teams with a free birth not to compete in their Metros out of courtesy to the other teams demonstrates, to me, a lack of Sportsmanship and support for the sport as a whole by narrowing one's vision to consider what is important only to what's best for "my" team. I, as much as anybody, realize this is not Rec ball and the competition is fierce. But sometimes, there are life lessons which can be taught, and we viewed this as one of those times.

Repectfully,

Mke

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[ssarge]

ssarge...you statement here surprises me given your wealth of informed and otherwise sound posts...

Actually, the Lady Magic 14u team (invited to Premier) pulled out of the Sacramento metro tournament for that very reason.This is also the second year in a row that the LM Gold team has neither seeked, nor competed for, a berth to ASA Gold Nationals given their invitation to participate at Premier. That is called Sportsmanship.

We are preparing to play in a major national double elimination tournament. We don't in fact feel prepared, so we are obtaining experience as best we can. Obviously, Lady Magic has a different approach for preparation than we do, and I assume that's why you called us to play a Friendly that weekend. That would have been fun and valuable, but for our purposes, the Metro was better.

But there were other reasons we played in the NorCal State Championship. Perhaps foremost, we wanted to be the Champions of our Association. Which is part of what that tournament is about. CLEARLY, since the two winner's bracket finalists play for the title. Even though both are already qualified.

Clearly participation in a championship event when you have NO INTENT on advancing has an impact on the outcome of the event, hindering the opportunity for other young athletes who ARE looking to advance. You have been around at all different levels long enough to know that simply participating in the draw impacts the potential outcome of the tournament. There are so many variables included with every team, no matter their competitiveness, which influence who ends up playing on Sunday afternoon.

A pretty big percentage of teams in this weekend's Premier qualifier were already ASA qualified. I don't see much difference. Were they planning on returning those berths if they qualified for Premier? I have no idea, but would note that ASA pass-down berths happen every year for whatever reason, and people seem to deal with it OK. (In fact, they have already happened thie year in Premier qualifiers, based on Gary's post on this very subject.) Even if it is weeks after the fact, as it sometimes is with ASA pass-down berths, people deal with it OK. On the other hand, we turned down our berth on the spot.

MANY teams enter qualifiers with no intention of playing in Nationals should they qualify. For budget reasons, because they have younger players and are on a "two year" plan, because TCS (or similar) fits their team objectives better, whatever. Often those teams don't in fact qualify, but sometimes they do.

I fully recognize that other organizations may not understand or follow that philosophy, and that diversity is what makes the sport what it is today (in a good way). But to say it is "ridiculous" for teams with a free birth not to compete in their Metros out of courtesy to the other teams demonstrates, to me, a lack of Sportsmanship and support for the sport as a whole by narrowing one's vision to consider what is important only to what's best for "my" team. I, as much as anybody, realize this is not Rec ball and the competition is fierce. But sometimes, there are life lessons which can be taught, and we viewed this as one of those times.

Repectfully,

Mke

Mike, I really appreciate that you signed your post "respectfully." Otherwise, I might not have known where you were coming from when you passively-aggressively indicated how much better is your sportsmanship than mine.

But all right, I get your opinion. Namely, that I don't understand sportsmanship. But there are LOTS of different kinds of "life lessons." I'll close with this: It isn't an easy decision to go play in a large qualifier knowing that if you lose, you'll be derided. "Good enough to get an invitation to Premier, not good enough to qualify for ASA." That would be the MOST polite way the sentiment was expressed. Takes some guts to put it on the line. Lots of teams wouldn't do it. Particularly since we all know for almost a certainty that a bad showing will affect your players and parents in a way that basically ends your season.

Add to that the fact that we had no real idea - and still don't - if we are particularly good. We played a Memorial Day tournament, and an ASA pre-quialifier prior to the Metro. We got smoked in our second game of the summer by AASA in that Memorial Day tournament. Then we had a good couple of days and won some games. The pre-qualifier - required by ASA - was not real competitive. The Metro was our third tournament. Going in, our data points were limited. Could have fallen on our face at the Metro, and looked ridiculous, and all but ended our year. I have a great deal of admiration for Schroll being willing to put it on the line and find out whether our players have what it takes. He wanted them to know, too, I would think. And maybe now they do. Not sure we would have known as much had we played a Friendly.

Scott

[LadyMagic83]

Scott....not going to debate the pro's and con's for your team, you are the coach, and as i said, your outlook is different than ours and you are welcome to it. What I will take objection to is your use of the word "RIDICUlOUS" ascribed to teams who, already qualified for the championship of their choice, don't feel the need to use another teams chance to qualify as a training opportunity for their own team. It is fine and expected that you do what is best for YOUR team. No issues. I just like to look at the bigger picture and what is good not only for my teams, but the Metro and sport as a whole.

And just to be clear:
"CLEARLY, since the two winner's bracket finalists play for the title. Even though both are already qualified."
In GSSA, that was not the case. No championship was played. The winners bracket got one berth and the survivor of the losers bracket got the other.

"It isn't an easy decision to go play in a large qualifier knowing that if you lose, you'll be derided. "Good enough to get an invitation to Premier, not good enough to qualify for ASA." That would be the MOST polite way the sentiment was expressed. Takes some guts to put it on the line."

That's just an ego statement, sorry.

"Lots of teams wouldn't do it."
You're right, lot's of teams didn't see the need.

"Particularly since we all know for almost a certainty that a bad showing will affect your players and parents in a way that basically ends your season."
Sounds like shaky team dynamics based on a "the only success is winning" philosophy, which I think is a major difference here. I understand that may/may not be your attitude as the coach, and that players (or more likely, parents) demand that attitude which makes team stability/dynamics difficult.

That said, best of luck to you and your girls. I have nothing but respect for your experience and opinions and hope you find the success that hard work and good coaching brings!

Mike

[ssarge]

not going to debate the pro's and con's for your team,

You seem to be doing so in each of your posts. And the conversation has reached an impasse, I guess, so this will be my final post on the topic. Please feel free to take the last word.

What I will take objection to is your use of the word "RIDICUlOUS" ascribed to teams who, already qualified for the championship of their choice, don't feel the need to use another teams chance to qualify as a training opportunity for their own team.

I get it. It's a pejorative word, perhaps I should have selected my language more carefully. OF COURSE, it was in the middle of a response to someone who had just accused my team of cheating by using illegal players on the roster and I was a little worked up about that. Frankly, I would have expected a little defense and moral outrage on that accusation, from a number of people. You included. It seems to me that would have been courteous and sportsmanlike.

Perhaps MY sense of fair play IS skewed. Because from where I sit, my use of the word "ridiculous" (to describe ANYTHING) is pretty tame compared to that.

And just to be clear:
"CLEARLY, since the two winner's bracket finalists play for the title. Even though both are already qualified."
In GSSA, that was not the case. No championship was played. The winners bracket got one berth and the survivor of the losers bracket got the other.

Your partameters were different than ours. Perhaps the COURTEOUS thing to do would have been to familiarize yourself with our parameters before criticizing our decision.

"It isn't an easy decision to go play in a large qualifier knowing that if you lose, you'll be derided. "Good enough to get an invitation to Premier, not good enough to qualify for ASA." That would be the MOST polite way the sentiment was expressed. Takes some guts to put it on the line."

That's just an ego statement, sorry.

No, it's an opinion DEVOID of ego. You're not the only one entitled to an opinion. Mine could well be wrong, but it is based on 20 years experience as a coach, a decade of experience on message boards such as this one, and my observation of the liklihood the Sorcerers will get criticized for ANYTHING (THAT fact based on my observation before I was even associated with the club).

"Lots of teams wouldn't do it."
You're right, lot's of teams didn't see the need

We DID see the need, because we don't know yet whether we're good enough to compete at the upcoming levels. But we want to do our best to prepare ourselves.

As mentioned, we also wanted to win our state championship. And we want to play as many games as possible against top competition this summer, in order to prepare our players for the future (including the future within our own organization, or yours, or wherever else they chose to try to earn a spot). And we wanted to play in front of college recruiters, an opportunity afforded by an 80 team championship tournament for ages up to 18. Assisting our player's desires to use softball to facilitate their dreams for college is our paramount goal.

There were a lot of reasons to play in that tournament beyond a berth. Reasons which dovetailed with our objectives as a team and an organization.

"Particularly since we all know for almost a certainty that a bad showing will affect your players and parents in a way that basically ends your season."
Sounds like shaky team dynamics based on a "the only success is winning" philosophy, which I think is a major difference here. I understand that may/may not be your attitude as the coach, and that players (or more likely, parents) demand that attitude which makes team stability/dynamics difficult.

That said, best of luck to you and your girls. I have nothing but respect for your experience and opinions and hope you find the success that hard work and good coaching brings!

Thanks. I know our players and parents will appreciate your kind words.

Best regards,

Scott