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by DonnieS » Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:31 am

Sid Barrett wrote:I categorically disagree! About 50% of the citizens our our great land pay NO income taxes. NONE. ZERO. ZILCH. If you don't believe, me look it up.


Actually Sid, its worse than that. Due to stupid business decisions on my part, and a perfect storm of pile-ons, I found myself very recently in the lowest of low income situations. Most years before this depression, I paid more in taxes than I made during this period. I went to do my taxes, and to my incredible surprise, I received a large refund, way above and beyond what little I had paid in. So - its not they the 50 percenters dont pay income tax - they (me in the most recent case) receive refunds anyway.

At my lowest, I applied for various assistance - I was turned down, because of the most obvious reason, but also because I had made money in years past. It takes a lot of time to do these applications and after a short while, I was stressed out because I kept thinking of the time I was wasting standing in these lines and the money I could be making, even if it was minimal pay. So I cut grass, cleared brush, worked fence, trapped hogs, trotlined fish, planted olive trees, dug and cleared irrigation lines, whatever it took, and then go to the grocery store - and see young guys with their women, certainly stronger and healthier than me, whip out their Lone Star cards and pay for stuff that I had to hunt and trap. And at the worst of this, I never let my family's health insurance go, I listen to too many people say they cant afford it - thats not the case in 99% of the cases, its people making choices to let other people pay for their own family's medical expenses. If a 59 year old can do it, that homeless guy hanging out by the liquor store damn sure can.
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by Trophy Hunter » Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:56 am

Gim - You speak of corruption as though it is something new, when it's possibly the worlds oldest profession. Corruption is everywhere, and is the oil that keeps the machine running. It is blatant and in many cases completely legal. Need a favor, make a political donation. Need a law passed to help your business, make more and larger political donations.

Now when an expansive government comes along and imposes crippling taxes on companies and individuals, they will move - out of state, out of country, wherever the taxation/business climate is conducive to their sustainability - or they will shut down. Is it better they move or better they shut down? Obviously better that they move. The business paradigm has shifted to a world economy... Why lose jobs simply because one government is imposing heavier taxes?

From a historical perspective, what is new is the welfare state. Rather than oil the machinery, it cripples it. Sucks it bone dry. This is happening in Greece, and in the U.S. Your response was to cast dispersions on the wealthy, and corruption, misdirecting the conversation away from the true drag on these economies - entitlements.

Increasing taxes to pay out ever increasing entitlements will drive business away, or force it shut down. Yes, small business gets screwed - moving isn't really a viable option. The alternative - shrink the government, eliminate the welfare state - enables lower taxes which in turn allows small business to thrive.

The current regime in the U.S. doesn't see it that way though. They want to bloat the government, and increase taxes (and worse, borrow recklessly) so they can grow the welfare state, pander to those voters, and increase their chances of staying in power. The resultant debt is what is crippling the economy. Not the wealthy, not corruption, the debt incurred to grow the welfare class. That, the buying of votes with taxpayer money, is corruption in its ugliest form because it can only lead to the destruction of the system as a whole, because it kills off the taxpayers.

Witness Greece - the canary in the coal mine - and take heed. Welfare does not work. It does not incentivize its recipients toward a meaningful contribution to society. It rewards sloth, and failure. This is not what made America great. What made America great was innovation and hard work, which begat wealth, oiled by your old friend corruption.
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by Trophy Hunter » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:04 am

Donnie S. - Congratulations on retaining your self-respect and dignity. You are the personification of what made America great.
Ladies, if a man tells you he will fix it, he will fix it. There is no reason to remind him about it every six months.
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by DonnieS » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:23 am

Trophy Hunter wrote:Donnie S. - Congratulations on retaining your self-respect and dignity. You are the personification of what made America great.


I didnt tell it to brag, I am not a good enough writer to express how bad it really was - I told the story to say that while I do sympathize with people having hard times and will help them -but if a 59 year old can get out there and do it - so can others.
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by GIMNEPIWO » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:22 pm

TH sez : ... " Gim - You speak of corruption as though it is something new, when it's possibly the worlds oldest profession. Corruption is everywhere, and is the oil that keeps the machine running. "

Lots of things have been around since the dawn of time ... That makes them right ? ... Murder, rape, theft ... :roll:

Either you and Sid are not reading what I wrote or I am not conveying my thoughts properly ... I am not slighting companies for moving away and not reinvesting ... That is the system that is in place and they are exploiting it for their benefit ... I am saying it is a flawed system that needs to be fixed ...

And this all started because I said that Greece had corruption and the Uber rich were getting away with tax evasion ... :lol:
"For the strength of the pack is the wolf, the strength of the wolf is the pack" Rudyard Kipling
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by Trophy Hunter » Sun Feb 19, 2012 7:04 pm

GIMNEPIWO wrote:TH sez : ... " Gim - You speak of corruption as though it is something new, when it's possibly the worlds oldest profession. Corruption is everywhere, and is the oil that keeps the machine running. "

Lots of things have been around since the dawn of time ... That makes them right ? ... Murder, rape, theft ... :roll:

Either you and Sid are not reading what I wrote or I am not conveying my thoughts properly ... I am not slighting companies for moving away and not reinvesting ... That is the system that is in place and they are exploiting it for their benefit ... I am saying it is a flawed system that needs to be fixed ...

And this all started because I said that Greece had corruption and the Uber rich were getting away with tax evasion ... :lol:


Murder and rape do a lot for the economy, do they? Not sure how that correlation is relevant.

What you are saying now isn't at all what you were saying at the start, so it appears you may have learned something.
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by GIMNEPIWO » Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:50 am

Trophy Hunter wrote:
GIMNEPIWO wrote:TH sez : ... " Gim - You speak of corruption as though it is something new, when it's possibly the worlds oldest profession. Corruption is everywhere, and is the oil that keeps the machine running. "

Lots of things have been around since the dawn of time ... That makes them right ? ... Murder, rape, theft ... :roll:

Either you and Sid are not reading what I wrote or I am not conveying my thoughts properly ... I am not slighting companies for moving away and not reinvesting ... That is the system that is in place and they are exploiting it for their benefit ... I am saying it is a flawed system that needs to be fixed ...

And this all started because I said that Greece had corruption and the Uber rich were getting away with tax evasion ... :lol:


Murder and rape do a lot for the economy, do they? Not sure how that correlation is relevant.

What you are saying now isn't at all what you were saying at the start, so it appears you may have learned something.


The point was that merely because something has been around a long time, it doesn't make it right .... And yes, I've learned your reading comprehension sucks ...
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by Trophy Hunter » Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:10 am

GIMNEPIWO wrote:
Trophy Hunter wrote:
GIMNEPIWO wrote:TH sez : ... " Gim - You speak of corruption as though it is something new, when it's possibly the worlds oldest profession. Corruption is everywhere, and is the oil that keeps the machine running. "

Lots of things have been around since the dawn of time ... That makes them right ? ... Murder, rape, theft ... :roll:

Either you and Sid are not reading what I wrote or I am not conveying my thoughts properly ... I am not slighting companies for moving away and not reinvesting ... That is the system that is in place and they are exploiting it for their benefit ... I am saying it is a flawed system that needs to be fixed ...

And this all started because I said that Greece had corruption and the Uber rich were getting away with tax evasion ... :lol:


Murder and rape do a lot for the economy, do they? Not sure how that correlation is relevant.

What you are saying now isn't at all what you were saying at the start, so it appears you may have learned something.


The point was that merely because something has been around a long time, it doesn't make it right .... And yes, I've learned your reading comprehension sucks ...


IF true, (notice the big "if", Evelyn Wood?) that would put it on par with your understanding of economics :lol:
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by DonnieS » Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:05 am

Alright guys , do I have to put you in separate corners ? ;) Or some time out ? :twisted:
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