18 Gold Question

[NumeroUno]

Who has information about the new 18 Gold rules. I thought that I saw it on here but I can't find it. It has to do with the number of 18 gold teams.

[Sam]

Who has information about the new 18 Gold rules. I thought that I saw it on here but I can't find it. It has to do with the number of 18 gold teams.

There are no new Gold Rules....they are not printed anywhere...they do not exist. Apparently, the Regional JO director has verbally issued a "wish" to pare down Gold teams. He is:

Regional Junior Olympic Comm.
JO Comm Tom Dowd PO Box 625 Clovis, CA 93611 (559) 299-3313


Now in SoCal, a couple of Gold managers have gotten together to forge a system to help them get better players...so that they can have better players on their respective benches. They want to stop better players from playing on teams that will play them all the time. They will force them to do this by not allowing them to play against Gold teams if they choose to play on another team. They also don't like playing a lot of games in Lancaster, so they are going to force Gold teams out. This isn't done in any other division.

No other Regions are doing this. Technically, Region 14 isn't doing it...its not a rule or in writing anywhere.

[Sftbll4ever]

This is a paragraph that is from an e-mail that we received from the 16u JO Commisioner:

"Many of you may have also already heard that the SoCal Gold classification will be changing. The number of teams that will be in the Gold classification will be limited through 2 qualification tournaments. The proposal will soon be posted on the ASA website and can currently be found on different softball websites. If you are interested in attending a meeting that will discuss this, it will be held at the Crown Plaza Hotel in Irvine on October 15th at 7pm."

May be in writing very soon.

[Sam]

This is a paragraph that is from an e-mail that we received from the 16u JO Commisioner:

"Many of you may have also already heard that the SoCal Gold classification will be changing. The number of teams that will be in the Gold classification will be limited through 2 qualification tournaments. The proposal will soon be posted on the ASA website and can currently be found on different softball websites. If you are interested in attending a meeting that will discuss this, it will be held at the Crown Plaza Hotel in Irvine on October 15th at 7pm."

May be in writing very soon.

Your 16U commissioner is lying....not abnormal for that bunch at SoCal ASA....The rule enacting this "wish" is not even on the Region 14 website...and they have published minutes to their meetings. Its on the GSSA website. Make no mistake, this is a backroom deal...a solution to no problem meant to benefit a very few Gold Managers and will not benefit a SINGLE Gold Player. One might ask why ASA JO softball exists....one might think it is for the players' benefit...what these guys are doing hurts hundreds of players. The proponents of this measure, who would be voted down by vote of Gold coaches, would argue that it doesn't hurt players who wouldn't be on Gold teams if this abomination passes. They are lying and they know it...they are trying to return to 1998, when they held ALL the cards and nobody else could compete...they don't like being challenged and they are trying to rig the system.

[3Bsnag]

If all of us non-Region 14 people don't think this will affect us, think again.

1. The next stop for limiting Gold teams would have to be Region 7. In my opinion, we have it just as bad (probably worse) when it comes to the amount of teams that think they are Gold, with little talent to back up that title. However, we still have 70-100 teams trying to qualify. I know I'll get crap for this, but I do not believe some of our Golds could effectively compete with the extreme southwest OR southeast 16's, maybe 14's.

2. When Region 14 adopts this, look for more CA teams at your qualifiers.

3. If (or when) this comes comes to Region 7, there will be a conflict with our HS season and UIL rules. Qualifiers in December?

4. Since we don't usually play ball here in Dec and Jan, forget having Christmas break and private workout time in January. You will be freezing your butts off at a new qualifier for the real qualifier.

5. For all regions: Since the majority of college coaches are attending 16 and Gold nationals (an easy schedule since they are seperate weeks), what are the chances of the major's coming to 18A Nationals instead of 16's, since they are the same week? Ha!

6. If my previous assessments of the competition level in TX are correct, there would only be a handful (being nice) of teams that ever make OKC. ASA would have to territorially protect us from out-of-staters. Which will trickle down and force us to go to Maine to qualify.

7. I hope this doesn't hit Region 7, because I do believe our qualifiers are self-policed. Many try, few succeed.

Just my thoughts out loud.

[Sam]

Sam, I know this is a sore subject with you but how can you say the comish is lying? There have been discussions, there will be a meeting on the listed date, and a proposal will be put forth. Whether it goes through as being discussed is another matter but there is definetly "something" in the works.
P

The 16U J.O. Commish stated that the rule was posted on different websites.....which is a lie. Here is how this stuff is supposed to work:

1) A problem is identified.
2) An overall solution is discussed.
3) An overall solution is agreed to by the association/metro commissioners.
4) Each association develops procedures/rules for enacting the overall solution.

Thes guys are doing #4 without doing 1 through 3.

I am not so sure that the Region 14 commissioner nor the local JO commissioners even have the authority to do what they are proposing to do.

[Sam]

Here's what the ASA code says:

Section 507.

A. The local association commissioner shall classify teams and/or players within the local association in accordance with their respective classification code. A copy of each local association classification code shall be filed with the ASA National office.

Further down:

C. Local Classification Board. Each local association shall establish a classification board to review, upon written application, the classification of a team and/or players, and shall have the authority to change the classification if found to be not in accordance with the respective classification code.

D. Regional Classification Code. The Region shall have the authority to classify teams in accordance to a classification code adopted and approved by the voting members of the region. A copy of the Regional classification code shall be submitted to the ASA National Office.

E. Regional Classification Board. The voting members of the Region, by majority vote, may revise and amend a classification code of a local association within the Region to correct inequities in classification as reflected in regional tournament play. This body may also assign classification for ASA play to teams belonging to allied member organizations within the Region.


These rules are in place for mens and womens fast and slow pitch classifications so that A level teams aren't allowed to compete at C level Nationals. No other reason. It is not to keep high level B teams from competing at A National Qualifying, if they so wish. This is attempting to be used in reverse by Region 14...but I wonder what anybody has filed with the ASA National Office. Nothing, I will bet.

[Sam]

Sam, I know this is a sore subject with you but how can you say the comish is lying? There have been discussions, there will be a meeting on the listed date, and a proposal will be put forth. Whether it goes through as being discussed is another matter but there is definitely "something" in the works.
P

The 16U J.O. Commish stated that the rule was posted on different websites.....which is a lie. Here is how this stuff is supposed to work:

1) A problem is identified.
2) An overall solution is discussed.
3) An overall solution is agreed to by the association/metro commissioners.
4) Each association develops procedures/rules for enacting the overall solution.

Thes guys are doing #4 without doing 1 through 3.

I am not so sure that the Region 14 commissioner nor the local JO commissioners even have the authority to do what they are proposing to do.

The commish did not say the rule was posted on different websites.
He stated:
"The proposal will soon be posted on the ASA website and can currently be found on different softball websites"
Which as of now is what it is, a proposal.

SoCal ASA's proposal is nowhere. Gary Haning's perception of the proposed rules are what is posted. No OFFICIAL version of the proposal has been offered.

It is still a lie.

[FP_Coach4]

Here is the SoCal ASA proposal...............

So Cal ASA Gold Classification

Limit number of Gold teams to 51 for 2009

1. Criteria for becoming a Gold Team
• Teams that qualified for Gold Nationals in 2008 from PCR 14 Regional Tournament or the two Western Territory Tournaments get automatic classification as Gold for 2009. (11Teams)
• Remaining teams must qualify in one of two classification tournaments to be held each year. For 2009 first tournament will be limited to 84 teams with 24 teams qualifying, second tournament will be limited to 66 teams with 16 qualifying.
• Entries into the classification tournaments will be as follows.
1. Gold teams that participated in the 2008 PCR 14 Regional Tournament. (56)
2. Gold teams that qualified for Nationals outside of Region 14 or Western Territories. (2)
3. 18A teams that finished in the top 10 at So Cal State Championship.(Max 13)
4. 18A teams with a return Berth to Nationals from 2007. (Max 2)
5. 18A teams that qualified for 2008 Hall of Fame Qualifier in PCR 14.(Max 2)
6. 16A teams that finished in the top 10 at So Cal State Championship.(Max 13)
7. 16A teams with a return Berth to Nationals from 2007. (Max 2)
8. 16A teams that qualified for 2008 Hall of Fame Qualifier in PCR 14.(Max 2)
9. Open to all So Cal ASA teams that registered in 2008 as 18 Gold, 18U, 16U.

• Classification stays with qualifying Manager.
• Teams may enter both tournaments but once they qualify cannot play in second tournament.
• All players participating must be 2009 eligible.
• All Managers and Coaches must be 2009 Registered and Background checked to participate. ASA ID cards must be displayed at all times
• All Players must be 2009 Registered to participate.

[Sftbll4ever]

Apparently you received the same bunch of lies in your email like we did. Oh and here is the link to the map of where the location of the meeting is going to be held on Oct. 15th:

http://www.aqmd.gov/map/dir2.html