Questions to Parents of Pitchers with over use injuries

[DonnieS]

I know there are more than a few, I hear from some people that every pitcher around them has had or is planning shoulder, arm, elbow surgery. For those of us with younger pitchers, help us by telling us what you guys did? Not trying to point blame, etc, but trying to help us by not making any mistakes you guys may or may not have done.

A) with ages, how often did you practice
b) with ages, how long did you practice each day - warmup pitches?
c) with ages, how often did you go to instructions (usually kids pitch longer those days)
d) with ages, did you ice after practices, instructions, games, etc.
e) with ages, how much game time, estimate of pitch counts, innings, if by game, what kind of game, innings, time, etc.
f) with ages, how often did you play (2 weekends per month, 4 per month, etc)
g) with ages, did you have a time off each year
h) did your kid do other sports - which ?
i) outside softball/pitching, what kind of workout regimen if any?

[DonnieS]

I am going to answer my own post though we have not experienced shoulder, arm, elbow issues, yet but just to give an idea of what we do.

A) with ages, how often did you practice
At ages 10 and before, she practiced 4-5 times a week, trying to correct issues, trying to get control, often at and before 10, she worked on her own and I would go outside and finally make her to stop. Now at 15, practices 3 times a week, outside of high school season, In high school now, very recently, she is practicing 3 times a week with the high school pitching instructor.

b) with ages, how long did you practice each day - warmup pitches?
At ages 10 and before she practice considerably longer, probably 35-40 minutes a day, sometimes long, working on control, speed drills and off speed pitching. We focused on spins a lot, but not specific movement pitch. Now when she works with me, practice will run from 18 to 25 minutes, longer or short depending on whether she hit her goals for that practice. Now in high school, she is practicing longer, she told me somewhere around 200 pitches, on the intense work day, usually less - part of this is her excitement of working with new pitches and high school group. If we played on Sunday, she never practiced on Monday, usually tuesday, wed, thurs, rest on Friday, tournament on the weekend.

c) with ages, how often did you go to instructions (usually kids pitch longer those days)
She went from early on to 12 and under every other week to pitching class (6 hour round trip drive) , after than we were lucky to get a trip a month or every other month.

d) with ages, did you ice after practices, instructions, games, etc.
always after instructions, long practices, not after the short practices, always after the last game of the day, we did this from day one because I saw baseball pitchers doing it.

e) with ages, how much game time, estimate of pitch c
ounts, innings, if by game, what kind of game, innings, time, etc.
from age 9 through 14, she pitched probably 75% of the time virtually all games were timed, I kept pitch count quite a bit, she had a max of 274 pitches in one day at a state tournament ( i got worried about it about this time and started researching the issue) but a usual game day would be in the 120 or less. Most games had times of 65 to 70 minutes limits

f) with ages, how often did you play (2 weekends per month, 4 per month, etc)
from 9 to 14 she played about 140 games a year, typically 2 weekends a month, one off for beach time, some times 3 times a month , at high school age, playing other sports we will probably be around 100 though we are in our first high school year. She has been fortunate to have other pitchers on the team most of the time.

g) with ages, did you have a time off each year
Yes, usually a couple of weeks around christmas

h) did your kid do other sports - which ?
Swam (not competitively anymore), volleyball, track, basketball, flag football

i) outside softball/pitching, what kind of workout regimen if any?[/quote]
Pretty intense extra workouts, that she set up personally and has done for years, lots of crunchs, situps, various core exercises, running in place, runs laps around the neighborhood, swims in backyard pool,

[Tucson]

Age she had to give up pitching 16.

injury - shoulder impingement

A - from 2nd grade, every day that the weather in IL. was warm enough. Fortunately, there was an off season.

B - probably 30 minutes. Early on in grade school, she did not have a good warm up.

C - no instruction other than myself, until age 12 or so.

D - she refused to ice.

E - games were mostly LL, including All Stars and filling in as a pick up in TB.

F - from age 8 she probably played 3 games per week

G - yes, off season from October - February (IL. plays middle school ball in the early Fall)

H - yes, volleyball and basketball, gymnastics and dance, and many other activities such as piano.

I - She and I pitched every day, out in the street or on the driveway. I was from the old school and had played ASA, myself. The pitchers never had a routine, or down time or recovery time. They just pitched and pitched. Many pitched into their 40s.

I don't know what the difference is between now and 20 years ago. I have often wished that someone would develop a sling shot pitcher and see how she does. The speed isn't that different, control is the same, but I would like to know if the shoulder holds up better.

[Bill_B]

A) with ages, how often did you practice
b) with ages, how long did you practice each day - warmup pitches?
c) with ages, how often did you go to instructions (usually kids pitch longer those days)
d) with ages, did you ice after practices, instructions, games, etc.
e) with ages, how much game time, estimate of pitch counts, innings, if by game, what kind of game, innings, time, etc.
f) with ages, how often did you play (2 weekends per month, 4 per month, etc)
g) with ages, did you have a time off each year
h) did your kid do other sports - which ?
i) outside softball/pitching, what kind of workout regimen if any?

A) Since 2nd year 8U, every day
B) At 8U the pitch count per day was about 50. At 10 we went to about 100 per day. Now (15) we try to get about 150 per day. This is a count of proper pitches. There were stretches, and short snaps to get things warmed up that weren't counted.
C) Pitching coach very early on. This was once per week.
D) Ice, ice, ice. Frequently and consistently.
E) Lots 'o innings. Lots 'o games. Most games pitch count has been about 85 or so.
F) With 12 and 14 at least four games a week. Now with 18G it's a bit less intense for the time being. Should ramp up with summer.
G) No time off. For example, after 14U Nats last year we drove MoHo from Texas to home and rested a day. The next day she wanted to pitch. This is her call, not mine and I want to emphasize that. This kid absolutely loves the game and that's all there is to it.
H) Bear hunting with a bow.
I) Core strengthening, leg strenthening. Tons of situps, calf extensions, squats, leaps, jumprope, medicine ball assisted situps and torso twists, rowing machine, spring grip, weighted wrist-roll.

[DonnieS]

Bill, probably our kids are too young, but has she had any shoulder, arm, elbow, etc. pain or problems yet?

[Bill_B]

Bill, probably our kids are too young, but has she had any shoulder, arm, elbow, etc. pain or problems yet?

Hi Donnie,
No injuries other than a broken nose, broken finger, and broken toe. I have held my tongue throughout this overuse injury discussion sprinkled throughout the website, and will not engage now. Suffice it say there are extreme positions on either side of the issue and some will not be swayed.

[Dino]

No significant injuries but I really think that it comes down to the fact that some people can handle more practice than others. One kid might be able to pitch five days a week all the way through college and never have a significant injury while another kid may have rotator issues by 14 under the same exact practice plan. Usually, by the time a kid is 13-14 you start to get a feel for how fast they recover, how much is too much, etc.

[EVR585]

Hey everyone,

Thought I would share my experiences. I have a 13 year old and we have been very fortunate to date. Injuries have not been a problem, but we have battled some soreness and minor tendonitis. I believe that we have avoided injury by recognizing the soreness and tendonitis for what they were. ALARMS! DD can throw all day long without complaint. However, she has gotten good at gauging her body and communicating to me when her arm/shoulder is sore. Once I hear of the soreness we throttle back the work outs and treat with advil, ice and rest. It has been an effective approach for us and has kept DD on the field.

DD throws three times a week. Usually Mon., Wed., and Friday. I put a lot of focus on warming up. Mon. and Wed. we throw simulated games (7 innings) usually comes out to about 100 pitches. Friday is governed by if we are playing that weekend. No tournament = 7 inning simulated game. Tournament = 50 pitch session (focusing on spin pitches). Our team has three outstanding pitchers. They alternate games so there is no overuse on game weekends.

DD has incorporated weight lifting into the routine. DD alternates upper and lower body lifting Monday through Friday. Lower body days conclude with sprints and agility work. The weight lifted is light and DD goes three sets of ten for each exercise. DD never lifts unsupervised!

I know it sounds like a lot, but it works out to be 1 1/2 hour out of the day. I get off at five and we hustle to the ball park (if it is a day we throw) and we usually end up before seven. DD has bought into the routine and gets homework done when she arrives from school and is dressed and ready when I hit the door.

Note: Since lifting I have seen very little soreness issues popping up and interfering. Also I insist that she stretch before and after workouts. She does balks at that, but complies. I hope this helps.

[DonnieS]

EV, what about icing after games or long practices, things like that? Consistent - sometimes - you said you do it when she says she is sore, what about otherwise.

Todate, the only soreness, she described it as stiff, in the shoulder or arm, has been after too much pitching over a weekend, typical in tough games against gold type teams. This season, she is a freshman, the day after volleyball season ended, was the Ronald McDonald showcase - her pitching workouts had been cutback because of varsity vball, pretty intense, and she got to RMD, lots of attention there so she worked very hard, trying to look good. After the pitching camp, she was tired and sore in her legs as well, hadnt used those muscles in a while. She was disappointed because she did pitch her top there - but 3 months of vball will do that.

[EVR585]

No. I have been negligent when it comes to icing. I only bring it out when she complains of soreness.

However, if I was to put ice on her regularly I would ice after long workouts and after the final game of the day. My understanding is that ice should never be used between games. Icing should be used when the athlete is done with his/her workout or competition. That has come from the athletic trainer here.