Do Your Pitchers Out-Pitch Your Catchers?

[Clean_up]

Art thanks for the reality check.

Coach Ed I think that's pretty ridiculous most 12u teams at least the one my older dd plays on has three solid pitchers and there average speed is 50-53. Of course they can throw harder and get it up there but that's an average and they do a mighty fine job. I have heard of girls throwing 57-61 average but they are the exception. You are claiming there are plenty of good pitchers 12u that are not much faster than the 10u's I think not. I have been to plenty of 10u games, have a daughter in 10u also and not sure what team your watching or playing against but I havent seen that kind of pitching this year on all the top teams. Ditch the radar gun you have because it's obviously not working. I have seen one pitcher who probabley averages 51-52 and I am sure she can hit 54 at times but that's one pitcher on one team, not one on all top teams. I hope for your teams sake your coaching skills are better than your observation skills.

So true, and I have seen some very successful off-speed pitchers with exceptional movement who are throwing mid-high 40s. BTW, I saw one of the "top 2" 12u pitchers throw at lessons (we have the same pitching coach) and she was throwing fastballs 57-60mph, but then she was clocked in a game recently throwing in the 54-55 range. So, many times what a pitcher is capable of throwing and what she can actually handle throwing in a game are way different, control issues, spin, etc. Any of the top teams in So Cal will catch up to a 57 mph fastball and unless there is significant movement, shazamm!

Back to the original topic, I totally agree that teams need to put more emphasis on catching drills, and the OP seems to give a good start. Let's not forget blocking and throw-downs, etc. I like to see a pitching machine set up to bounce the ball just in front of the plate for blocking, and side to side to handle curves, screw balls, etc. We have an hour pitching/catching sesson before practice and rotate all pitchers with all catchers so they all know what they are dealing with from each of the pitchers. I also like to see catchers start looking at batters and developing their skills and identifing what pitches to call and actually getting free reign to call a game or at least a couple of innings in friendlies, get them really into the game and developing those mental skills.

[MoeFoes]

I dont think catching heat is a problem. Most catchers would actually prefer heat over a junk baller. I have yet to see a 10U or 12U drop & block correctly or display the patience that junk ballers require. I have seen a 10U catcher catch for a 14U TB pitcher that throws 55mph & do just fine. Location & glove work were outstanding. But I have seen the same catcher catch for a 10U & 12U junk baller and I watched mechanics go right out the door. Balls being dropped stabed at. Just ugly. To be honest the fastest pitchers in 10U in SoCal only through 47 to 50 mph tops. I've clocked them..... When they hit 50+ the control goes right out the door?
My DD can throw 52 mph.. That is with her eyes closed, running forward, throwing down hill, and after her daily injection of anabolic steriods....

[fasterpitch92701]

Far too many catcher's pretty much stink it up.

Really. I have found just the opposite. Lot's of wannabe pitchers and some are actually as good as they think they are. Of course, if one expects the catcher to cover or smooth over sloppy, inept pitching, well, yes, it can be done to some degree. Regardless, there are competent, good catchers out there. And some bad ones, just like every other position on the field. Including pitchers.

I get a laugh out of parents of pitchers who complain that the catcher isn't stopping every single pitch that bounces two or three feet in front of the plate or directly on the leading edge. Or launches one 3 feet over the back side of the batters head, all the way to the backstop. Or complains that the catcher doesn't throw out every steal at second while the pitcher walks 7-8 batters a game.

Yea, those catchers really stink it up...

[wadeintothem]

Far too many catcher's pretty much stink it up.

Really. I have found just the opposite. Lot's of wannabe pitchers and some are actually as good as they think they are. Of course, if one expects the catcher to cover or smooth over sloppy, inept pitching, well, yes, it can be done to some degree. Regardless, there are competent, good catchers out there. And some bad ones, just like every other position on the field. Including pitchers.

I get a laugh out of parents of pitchers who complain that the catcher isn't stopping every single pitch that bounces two or three feet in front of the plate or directly on the leading edge. Or launches one 3 feet over the back side of the batters head, all the way to the backstop. Or complains that the catcher doesn't throw out every steal at second while the pitcher walks 7-8 batters a game.

Yea, those catchers really stink it up...

between 10U-14U pitchers out perform catchers to a very noticeable degree and it is well known in the umpire community.. where we learn it by pain. The reason is simple - people breed and train pitchers - catchers get short shrift and taught by some coach who probably never ever played the position. As a result umpires serve as a personal back stop for far to many inept catchers.

There are some damn good ones for their age (I only remember 1 "phenom" 14U catcher for the whole of last year - and she was so impressive she sticks out in my mind right now); nonetheless, it is my experience that most younger catchers stink it up in several ways. ... from the worst - actually not being able to catch - to other things such as not understanding positioning, politicking, or plays. They dont know where to throw the ball properly. They dont know how to block a ball properly. They dont set up properly for the pitch thrown. They are confused easily and unable to properly pick.

Thats all training (assuming some level of skill) - pitchers get that private instruction and training. Catchers do not. As a result, yes many very much stink it up. At about 14U they start picking it up, saving us for when the pitchers throw start throwing hard... thankfully.

Forget the junk baller thing.. not much movement at that level anyway.

[MoeFoes]

Umpires love junk ballers.. No shots to the toes or the shins. But I would rather take a junk balller with a good cather to a tourney than a flame thrower with a sub par catcher. Once the blue has been hit he is less likely to stay in there. They make adjustments too.......

[fasterpitch92701]

wadeintothem... for the most part, I agree. The "glory" sits with the pitcher, as every coach and pitcher parent apparently knows all too well. The athletes... true athletes, reside at the pitchers mound (assuming they are not a one-trick-pony), short and catcher. (Flames in my future... gawd, stepped into it again... heresy)

There was a book, can't remember the title, written by xyz about catchers and pro-baseball. The net/net was that catchers didn't last if they started out as catchers because of injuries or knees. Often, "recruited catchers" were shortstops. Damn, need to find that book.

At 12-14 the pitchers have it, IMHO, easy. Few batters are seldom really that good and a good, athletic pitcher can look... really good. Just the opposite for catchers. Lots of marginal players (catchers) but those that develop and stick it out (and actually enjoy it) become the foundation for the pitcher and the team. Again, IMHO. And it's not just catching the ball, as you know too well... but catching the crappy ball, blocking, throwing with aggressive intent, knowing the rules, what the ump is willing to call and NOT willing to call... and standing your ground. Combine that with game sense, foot speed and leadership, calling the pitches... you have a winner. Not many "good"... in every sense of the word... are around by 16-18U. Those that are stand out.

But it's not the "fun" position. My daughters HS softball coach commented one day that she would have made a great football linebacker (had she been a male). The eyes, the vision, the commitment to the play. But... along with that comes three broken bones (fully healed, no after affects), more practice time (regular practice and pitching practice) as well as the physical abuse. BUT... and this is not trivial, you are "in the game" on e-v-e-r-y pitch, every play. And... yes...occassionally even have contact with the ump that others don't, for better or worse, usually better. But it's not a "fun" position. It's work. Takes a mentality that is "unique".

wish you well in good health...

[Coach11]

wadeintothem... for the most part, I agree. The "glory" sits with the pitcher, as every coach and pitcher parent apparently knows all too well. The athletes... true athletes, reside at the pitchers mound (assuming they are not a one-trick-pony), short and catcher. (Flames in my future... gawd, stepped into it again... heresy)

No flames here....but I will take exception with the "true athletes reside at the pitchers mound".

I have found, that quite often, the very best pitchers, are in fact "one trick ponies".

While it is often the very best athletes who begin their "careers" in the circle, often enough, the very best pitchers turn out to be the girls who perhaps didn't posess a whole lot of other talent.

No hard and fast rules implied....just a personal observation.

[fasterpitch92701]

I agree... too many one-trick-ponies. The standard phrase I hear is that if they are not pitching they can play 1st base. I guess that is the "safest" alternative location requiring a minimal amount of throwing and foot movement/speed. While there are some pitchers that are THAT good that they can be the one-trick-pony and be worth it to the team as a whole, I would have to assume that college coaches looking at the remaining players, those mere-mortal unwashed masses, would prefer to have players that can play 2-3 positions and play them well.

A complete alternate catcher-centric viewpoint, particularly at the very young ages, is placing the... ahhhh... more stout... and ahhhh.... solid... player at catcher under the assumption that said player would be too slow at any other position. That, however, flushes out fairly quickly. By 14's, if your slow, your... just slow... and will won't be going far. A fast catcher is a find. And, of course, so is a fast SS. That's probably why I am biased towards the best true athletes being the SS and catcher... and maybe... maybe center field. My original comment about pitching parents knowing about who is the best athlete on the field was only minorly sarcastic.

Regardless... in my myopic, perfect, Pollyanna world I would have a team of athletes, not a team of specific position players. But I am a mere plebe in the world of softball...

[Coach11]

Regardless... in my myopic, perfect, Pollyanna world I would have a team of athletes, not a team of specific position players. But I am a mere plebe in the world of softball...

On the whole, I agree with you.

However, I have seen a few "one trick ponies" that are worth holding onto.

So long as they understand their role on the team, they can be quite a blessing.

I think you are spot on regarding the most important positions in the field.

I put a good catcher as #1. The ability to keep runners from advancing, can often make up for a less than stellar pitching performance.

#2 would be SS.....and you never realize how important the CF is, until you don't have one.

[DonnieS]

Regardless... in my myopic, perfect, Pollyanna world I would have a team of athletes, not a team of specific position players. But I am a mere plebe in the world of softball...

On the whole, I agree with you.

However, I have seen a few "one trick ponies" that are worth holding onto.

So long as they understand their role on the team, they can be quite a blessing.

I think you are spot on regarding the most important positions in the field.

I put a good catcher as #1. The ability to keep runners from advancing, can often make up for a less than stellar pitching performance.

#2 would be SS.....and you never realize how important the CF is, until you don't have one.

I'm a pitcher's dad and a coach, the 2 most important fielders are the catcher and CF, ss is important too, but I agree with you, CF is essential. Older dd plays SS for high school team but on our travel team, we play older dd out there often and she has saved little sis's behind more than once after she has thrown a meatball. Regarding catcher, its very disheartening to a team and we have been on both sides, you finally get a runner at 1st, hbp or whatever, they take too big a chance, and the catcher guns them down.